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Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:51 am

I find it hard to write reviews at times, There is so much information you need to convey and it is easy to forget little details. A problem your posts seem to seldom have.

I'm going to start writing down my impressions of things to make it easier to give better information on the forum. Knives like the Goko 240 White #1 for instance has a lot of things that make it a great knife but when I have these moments at work using it, I'm like "Yeah, I should let people know that" but by the time I get everything running for service and get through that, I have forgotten. haha.

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:14 pm

@ Melampus - Hey :) Not to side track the purpose here, (for Toufas), but do you really think Konosuke's offering of the 240 Kiritsuke is 90 percent moot in a kitchen?
50/50 bevel, flat belly.....pretty much looks like a big Usuba to me, has a tip, nice and thin behind the edge. I can see a single bevel Kiritsuke being a little more complicated, but this westernized Konosuke doesn't seem that far a stretch from some other common knives?

Looks like a big chopper...and not too bad a push-cut slicer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-JiWW29W5w (CKTG)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jULdzIy1u10 (CKTG)

Keep in mind, I've never used one, and I'm not a chef, but doesn't seem like that big of a stretch.
Just wondering...

People seem to ask about them so...

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:15 pm

Melampus - IMO dedicated reviews with photos that you can refer to in your posts would save you SO much time in the future ;-).

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:33 pm

I think you'd have to use a double bevel kiritsuke like someone would use a cleaver.....or really long nakiri.

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:46 pm

DESOL <> Once again, try as I might to speak in encompassing manner, further specificity is required. :|

When I said, "functionally moot in 90% of Western kitchens" which is quite different than what you paraphrased as, "...Konosuke's offering of the 240 Kiritsuke is 90 percent moot in a kitchen" my point is as follows. As a manual food processor, as the chef knife, as the "all rounder knife... in a commercial kitchen [ostensibly western]... [in which resides predominantly those of whom are categorized as a] rocking-cutter" which was originally posted in this thread, the Kiritsuke is nearly entirely bereft of the attributes one looks for in this capacity. A Kiritsuke is a hybrid of the Usuba & the Yanagiba, and it's traditionally single-beveled... just not functionally efficient in a western kitchen. MAYBE & that's a HUGE maybe, 10% of Western kitchens could efficiently utilize the Kiritsuke as their general purpose Chefs knife. The flat profile is great for pull-cuts as you would expect of the Yanagiba, and to a lesser extent it's good at push cutting - as good as a Usaba is which is a niche knife in of itself designed to be thin to peel & make precise cuts in vegetables. Listen to how loud that profile is when it slaps the board in FANATIC's video. Ok... loud, who cares? Well on knives that are exceptionally thin on the edge, as kiritsukes tend to be, to have that kind of blunt trauma never equates to a positive. With some belly, as is found in other "chefs knives" like Gyutos & Santokus, that bluntness is spread out over the radius. Is it fun to use knives with thin grinds? Of course it is. Is it most appropriate for the majority as a solo Chefs-knife? Don't answer... it's rhetorical.

My comment applies less to Kono's mutation as it is throws some Gyuto belly into it & employs a double bevel which makes it a more appropriate fit w/Western cuisine, but make no mistake it's still a niche knife. If there ever were a Kiritsuke to use in the West, the Kono is it. Its not that big of a stretch to use a Kiritsuke; it is, in the context of this thread that your seemingly drawing one comment from & trying to make a general statement with, a big stretch to use the Kiritsuke profile as an all-around chef knife... as is the context of this thread.

As for the Shun Ambassador video, he's using the Kiritsuke with eastern cuisine slicing sashimi/crudo, and when you see him rocking - I swear he must be doing it specifically to relate to the masses because watching him employ said style on the chilis & green onions looks nauseatingly inappropriate. It does whoever illustrate the focus that will be constantly employed on the tip by a rocking-style cutter. Kiritsuke tips are typically thin & delicate to slice with precision as their yanagiba bloodlines do, but start employing a lot of rocking on that tip... not gonna be good. You rock on that a lot, you encounter some items that you have to lift your heel high enough to clear... bam, that tiny tip is taking a lot of PSI. I'm not saying rocking is going to chip it; I'm saying that it's not the most appropriate design for said style of which most western cooks employ. As with life, you respect the law of averages when you want to sway the odds in your favor.

It's cool to be different, and I'm sure there are those that love their Kiritsuke. But implementing a fairly task specific tool in applications its not well suited to although it will work, for awhile & for some better then others, it's just not prudent in my view. But again, I am only one... 8-)

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:23 pm

Cool, just thought I'd ask. 8-)

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:41 pm

Melampus - man are you ever on point with your comments on the Shun video. Chef's rocking looked awkward and illustrates your points perfectly.

I can totally see someone lifting too high when trying to rock a Kiritsuke and having the tip dig into their cutting board on the push stroke and BAM - bent tip or worse :( .

The OP specifically mentioned wanting something for rock cutting as you reiterated. There seems to a be a inordinate amount of fascination with this style, given the limited scope of it intended use and purpose. I'm not pointing fingers at those who use them and like them, but they seemingly call to people new to Japanese knives, who think they look cool without knowing what they are about. The blade shape does have a certain visual allure. This OP is a perfect example. Thank you for your continued diligence in educating everyone on the nuances of Japanese steel ITK.

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:59 pm

Thanks for the great posts everyone.

Melampus, that shiro looks stunning. I am on the email list for when it comes next, technically I could get something cheaper, till it comes back in stock, but I want to splash some semi serious money for once. I was considering the hiromoto 240mm but I have lots of tojiros for example, and I am not 100% happy with them, maybe the problem is with me and not with the knives?

The main issue with my workplace (japanese restaurant actually!) is that we have shitty chopping boards that wear off the knives. Some of the guys have globals which work ok most of the times, and I hate seeing my knives being worn off easily. Maybe again it's my fault and I don't sharpen them properly?

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:33 pm

Oh hell, he said Global, take a deep breath Mel!

Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:12 pm

Jeff B wrote:Oh hell, he said Global, take a deep breath Mel!

:lol: Jeff you're on a roll tonight. Finally picked out a new target since Mr. Knife Fanatic is too busy to visit us any more? :cry:
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