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 Post subject: White #1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:52 pm
Posts: 47
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
What carbon steel is the closest to the sharpness that White #1 is capable of but with noticeably better edge retention? I am thinking Blue #1 as it is closest to White #1 compositionally.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 4638
This is a pretty good illustration that I like to use for reference: http://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf/ ... 0Chart.pdf.

I think the bottom line for most sharpeners is that any of these will get just as sharp as one's skill level will allow.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:08 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 4209
I think sharpness and edge retention have several independent variables. So practically speaking, white steel would tend toward slightly keener edge while blue would tend toward slightly better edge retention. But I also think most people, in most applications, would find that there is relatively little difference in performance.

Arguably two of the sharpest knives I own are the Tanaka Kurouchi Nakiri (blue steel, IDK #1 or #2) and the Tojiro ITK petty (wt #2). The Tanaka has better edge retention but only because the Tojiro is a bit chippy, not because of abrasion or the edge folding...so far as I can tell. In this case heat treat seems more important than steel type.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:44 am
Posts: 627
LOL! Steve posted the same link I was about to post...

I think anyone would be hard pressed to tell a difference between the two as far as sharpness is concerned. Edge retention would be a bit different but mainly for someone who uses it professionally. Get something in Aogami (Blue) Super and you will have a professional quality steel that can take a very mean edge easily and more importantly hold it. Like Steve said, any of these steels will only get as sharp as the user's skill level. Also to echo Cedar, the maker's heat treatment and forging seem to make more of a difference (or just as much of one) as the steel itself. One maker's blue #1 can behave differently than another maker's blue #1.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:00 am
Posts: 678
From what I've seen, used and heard from co-workers and other knife nuts white steel is the perfect sharpening steel and it touches up super fast and takes a very fine, keen edge.

However in terms of a knife I'd like to use everyday, AS is the superior choice. Edge retention is everything for me. Once I get the blade sharp that's fine but if I have to strop 3-4 times in a shift it just bugs me. Currently I have more experience with 19C27 steel versus W#1, I prefer the 19C27 for edge retention, the edge doesn't tend to roll over quite as quickly, I can get a lot of prep done in a very short amount without stropping or honing.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:08 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:56 pm
Posts: 393
To each their own. I love my blades in White #1 and Aogami Super. It all comes down to what you were cutting and how you were cutting it... The AS tends to not need touched up as often but the W1 can still give me goose bumps on the first cut after a good touch up!


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:52 am 
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Posts: 25
My sharpest is the Tanaka Kurouchi wa-gyuto, which is blue #2. And I don't have a lot of experience or fancy sharpening stones, just a DMT plate, a ceramic rod and a strop, but I can get it to shave hairs off my arm and shred paper ribbons, and it holds on to its edge for weeks. (avid home cook, not a pro)


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:11 pm
Posts: 515
Location: NE
DefMunky wrote:LOL! Steve posted the same link I was about to post...

I think anyone would be hard pressed to tell a difference between the two as far as sharpness is concerned. Edge retention would be a bit different but mainly for someone who uses it professionally. Get something in Aogami (Blue) Super and you will have a professional quality steel that can take a very mean edge easily and more importantly hold it. Like Steve said, any of these steels will only get as sharp as the user's skill level. Also to echo Cedar, the maker's heat treatment and forging seem to make more of a difference (or just as much of one) as the steel itself. One maker's blue #1 can behave differently than another maker's blue #1.



Well put! Any selection of hitachi steels will perform well. I may have to say Blue #1 is most similar to White#1. I have some in White #2,#3, Blue #2, Blue Super, Ginsan #3 and I am pleased with all of them. I do not own white or blue #1 so I cannot thoroughly compare them. I do own a yanagiba in V2C and it performs well. Heat treat has major influence on performance. My comparison of the steel formulas does not directly reflect the knives hardness or edge retention. My V2C has better edge retention and durability than my White #2. The Tanaka Ginsanko #3 is much much harder than the White #3 knife I have. Come to think of it, I have a SK steel gyuto that performs better than my White#3. It doesn't quite give you the scary "give you chills" sharp, but it can go longer without a touch up.
Blue #2 is Konosuke and Tanaka and I am very pleased with both, no complaints there. The Super blue is terrific. I push it to the thin side because it is very hard and stays sharp.i wonder how the SKD would compare to Blue Super? I've been eyeing those SKD for quite some time now, would love to own a gyuto in White #1 too I just don't need one. I have enough carbons the way it is. :roll:
I should look at getting more stainless in my kit. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:07 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:52 pm
Posts: 47
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
Thanks to everyone that replied with their observations on carbon steels. I suspected that Super Blue has what I'm looking for in terms of edge retention as evidenced by the high regard of Takeda. Reviews seem to frequently mention the excellent retention and overall sharpness of knives. This I think indicates that he's nailed the HT, however I am not a big fan of KU finishes and am considering Kanehiro.


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 Post subject: Re: White #1
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 10:42 am
Posts: 3915
Location: USA... mostly.
If you've utilized the search feature to investigate this topic, you would had most likely encountered my opinion of Kanehiro AS. Absolutely incredulous performance. Period.



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