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 Post subject: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:57 pm
Posts: 241
Location: Central Illinois
Does anyone know what the approximate grit range of the 'Green Brick of Joy' is? As I understand these synthetic aotos they contain a mix of grits covering a some what wide range. The JNS 2k synthetic aoto ranges from 2-4k according to their website. I am not sure of the Nubatama 'Olive' version either. Thank you to anyone that can share this information.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:27 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 1209
The GB is 2k from the start but quickly refines to 4k+. Lots of glossy polish with this stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 432
I'm convinced it has 2k and 5k grits or 2k through 5k grits. I own the Jinzo, large Red which are 2k-4k Stones and have owned the Matukusuyama which is a 2k and 5k stone. The Aotoshi cuts slower than all except the Matu, but produces a more refined edge than all of them.

Unless it says it on the box, I've always been curious to know why it still sells as a 2k.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:28 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:52 pm
Posts: 212
CGuarin1987 wrote:Unless it says it on the box, I've always been curious to know why it still sells as a 2k.


The box could say Coo-Coo for Cocoa puffs for all i know, but Naniwa does rate the stone as 2k

IR-0260 (They don't list this stone on their English website, here is the Japanese market website with horrible Google translation)

hmmm link not working...trying again

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... i2ywGHt1Uw


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:32 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:36 am
Posts: 11
Location: Dallas, Texas
This is one of the stones I've been researching the last few days. Seems like everybody owns one of these, and I'm leaning towards getting one as well as a single do-it-all stone. I've read some users state it has a mix of grits, while others have mentioned it may have a combination of 2000 grit natural and synthetic abrasives. My question is pertaining to the latter. What does a combination of natural and synthetics abrasives actually do to a knife, if anything? Couldn't find very concrete info on this matter.

I think I may be thread jacking here(not sure I am :? ), please excuse my post.

Thanks,
Jeffrey


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:29 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
Posts: 479
As a one stone, do it all the green brick is a fine choice. It's not the fastest cutter, but I'll say a king 800 is the same speed. It'll polish very high and cover a lot of ground. As for natural vs. synthetic, natural has a tendency to break down into finer and finer particulate. There's a whole lot more to it and a good number of folks that can explain it much better than me.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:20 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 2797
I was not aware that the GB claimed to have natural materials in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:53 pm 
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Here's my take on it. Synthetic aotos aren't aotos. Period. This is simply a marketing term, trying to capture the allure of a natural stone. At least for the green brick or aototoishi and the black synthetic aoto, I don't think they have any natural stone in them on good authority.

To my knowledge the only natural synthetic combination stone I am aware of is the Han-Han stone, which is in a higher grit range and specifically formulated as a mixture. Again my knowledge limitation. Ther may be something out there I'm unaware of.

Also, again to my knowledge the 2k 'Olive' brick doesn't have a natural stone component. For the 2k Bamboo, I just don't know how the hell they make that stone mimic a true natural stone finish so well. It is a proprietary formulation, so perhaps it is 'doped' with natural stone - or not. I'm always amazed at the results it produces and puzzled at the mind it took to come up with it's formula.

Now if a stone is purported to be a 2k stone - specifically a synthetic, and some folks feel that it produces a finer than 2k finish, that doesn't imply a natural stone finish at all. Natural stone breaks down in a different manner and the finish is decidedly different. This shows up well under magnification.

The argument that a stone is a blend of say 2k grit and a finer grit is also problematic as an explanation. The coarser grit will determine the pattern. It is certainly possible to have a bimodal distribution around two grits, a wide dispersion around a single grit etc, but the coarser grit will predominate in any case. This could be resolved using PSD analyses if it was of sufficient interest and done well.

So I think it is best to consider these synthetic aoto stones individually rather than as any real collections on their own merits and qualifications.

My theory (not fact - I like to be cautious in my explanations if I don't have sufficient supporting evidence) is that what you are seeing are changes in the abrasive particles themselves. It is less that they are breaking down into smaller particles than that the verticies or cutting 'points' of the individual particles are dulling rather than the particles fracturing. This dulling or rounding of the particles cause the particles to penetrate less deeply into the metal so you get a shallower penetration, mimicking a finer finish and having more of a burnishing component to the action produced. If you have a lower abrasive density, ie comparing the lower abrasive density of the Green brick and superstones which are of similar composition as compared to the Chocera, this phenomena is more pronounced. You see this phenomena when comparing the 10k Chocera and 10k superstone as well. You also seem to see this breakdown more with softer particles ie comparing a diamond plate with firmly fixed hard abrasive with a stone. Also, with less particles and the particles more able to 'roll around' they tend to 'dig in' less giving a finer scratch pattern. This phenomena is sometimes referred to in discussions regarding lubricity.

I have no personal experience with the Jinzo and Matukusuyama so I really can't comment on these.

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Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
Posts: 479
Sorry I didn't mean to infer that it contains natural, I was simply trying to provide a basic gist of differences.


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 Post subject: Re: Naniwa 2k Grit Range
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Not a problem. This comes up with the synthetic aoto, which is the main reason I mention it. Made for a fuller discussion of the topic.

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Ken



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