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 Post subject: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:06 pm
Posts: 64
I was watching one of Ken's sharpening videos where he demonstrates maintaining a constant bevel angle around a curved tip. In it he angles the platform on the belt grinder and holds the blade horizontally, parallel to the ground. Since I'm always unsure if I'm maintaining a consistent angle, I was wondering if this could be applied with freehand sharpening, thinking it may be easier to visualize & hold the knife at a 0° consistently. Raising one side of the stone a couple of inches would create an angle of about 15° (obviously this would vary depending on the size of the stone). Then go through the normal motions, holding the blade flat.

Has anybody ever tried this? There's gotta be flaws in this method b/c I've never seen it discussed let alone actually done. And surely I'm not the first to think about it. Granted, I haven't read through all 1400+ topics in this forum yet. Maybe it's actually harder to do it this way. I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
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Location: Raleigh, NC
That's a very good idea. Ken has done this, actually. He used this very setup for a stone review. Part 1 linked here.

The biggest problem as I saw it, and he commented on, was a secure platform. Any system that has any give, at all, is going to rock a few degrees, which will make for inconsistent sharpening. The setup he had looks incredibly secure, but there's clearly movement. Maybe if you use only the very lightest of pressure, using mostly the weight of the knife, this could be viable. It would take a long time and probably a tight stone progression to get a good edge.

On reflection I thought an apparatus that is larger, some sort of counter top sharpening box or even a podium, might work. It would probably be pretty tough to construct while allowing for multiple angles because those points of articulation would be subject to that same wiggling, but there's no doubt it could be done. Obviously this would be quite a hassle.


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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:22 am 
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sharksfan7,

if you try it, let us know how it turns out. i'd like to hear.

pat



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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:10 am 
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Yes I've done this and yes that video with the stoneholder clamped in the panavise rocked WAY TOO much. Not my finest demo. It is one of the things I allude to in that BurrKing video. The concepts in that BurrKing video directly apply to bench stones as well.

A simple construction (can't find the picture right now) consists of two boards hinged together at one end with a 'lip' or strip of wood holding the stone against the upper board at the bottom of the stone and either a wedge or screw between the boards. This accomplishes making the stone at an angle and keeping the knife horizontal. This does make the motion a good bit simpler AND the stone isn't flopping around like it did in that video :(

It makes for a very precise motion around curves because as you mention holding something at 0 degrees is far easier on your muscle memory (proprioceptive capabilities) than say 'remembering' 14.5 degrees.

I also incorporated this concept in a sharpening device I built some time back (called the 'Gizmo' ) that looks superficially like a giant edgepro but it also let's you invert the stoneholder at a precisely measured angle (use an angle cube for this) for use as a freehand technique for knives that are difficult to do on an EP style of device - scimitars Khukuris, odd recurves and even single bevel knives.

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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:17 am 
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stoneholder.jpg
stoneholder.jpg [ 336.79 KiB | Viewed 116 times ]


Ah - here it is :) I made this for one of Mark's first customers. I'll bet Mark would remember him ...

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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:24 am 
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Image


Now if you look at sword polishers in a traditional setting, look at the angle of the stone :)

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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:36 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:06 pm
Posts: 64
Thanks for the replies. Nice to know that my thinking isn't entirely out of whack. After watching Ken's vid, it makes me think that this would be an interesting approach if the stone could be sufficiently stabilized. As I thought about a design, I noticed the stand for my tablet which is more of an A-frame with the hinge at the top. With this type of design, I'm thinking the back leg could provide support to the top end of the platform holding the stone, possibly eliminating any tendency for it to tip or bounce as pressure is applied near the top end of the stone. I just threw this together to show what I mean.

Image

Ken, how did the stand that you built work out? Maybe one day I'll figure out a way to put something like this together. Never really been a build-it-yourself kind of a guy.

Also, I guess to use this type of setup on both sides of the knife you'd have to switch hands so the edge is always facing away from you. I've been using the technique where I hold the knife in my dominant hand when working both sides of the knife. I don't think rotating the entire platform so the stone declines away from you and holding the knife with the edge towards you would work. Rotating the knife to work the tip would be really awkward, if not impossible to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:30 am 
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The stand worked out well for him. It really is a very simple design. Never really gave it a lot of thought but I guess the design implies that you switch hands to sharpen the two sides of the blade with the edge facing away from you, otherwise you would need to have the ramp in opposite directions if you used it with the blade facing towards you.

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 Post subject: Re: Angle stone instead of knife
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:47 am 
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new2.jpg
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Here's a picture of an early version of the 'Gizmo'. As you can see you would simply flip the stone holder over and lock the position or angle in place by tightening the pivot joint and you would have a stable way of holding the stone face up so it could be used either in 'EP mode' or with the stone slanted face up.

I used the DMT plates and GlassStones with the Gizmo mostly way back then, around 2007

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