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 Post subject: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark,
I read the blog, but...warning...worry wart questions follow
.... will I be able to know the degrees for sharpening
on each side of the blade? I sense that the important thing is feeling the blade
on the stone. Then again, I've heard how important it is to
know about the asymmetry to give one a heads up for "the feel."
Perhaps there is a video lesson on this, and I just haven't gotten
to it.

I'm hanging in with some 2x8 arkansas stones that I purchased
not long ago, thinking that I want to keep it simple....and
as I practice on some stainless knives...like a petty wusthof...
I feel like I'm not making much of an edge.

Nonetheless good to practice how to keep it flat. When the blade wobbles and hits
the side edge of the stone, I no longer hear the blade singing.
Terrible feeling and I think...what if I do that to one of Mark's
nice asian knives?

I've mitigated this a little bit by sanding down the edges of the stones, and
even that was a lot of stroking. Would it be a good idea to do this some more with the Atom
140 slurry plate (on the way) or is that accessory only for waterstones and not for
an arkie, and hence, would end up doing a disservice to your knife?

Sorry for these questions. I hope that your other customers are better.
Bill



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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Don't worry too much about the factory edge. It will be gone and will be the Bill edge after your first sharpening session. The whole process of grinding and edge will change the angle to the way you sharpen it. People worry way too much about this. If you go more steep than the current edge you will need to re-grind the edge a little and it takes a small amount of extra time. If you are less acute when you grind you will form a microbevel almost instantly. Both are fine.

Yes I highly recommend you round off your stone edges. This will help mitigate the problem of wobbling sideways and messing up your edges.
I use a flatting plate to do this as you mentioned.

If you have more questions please ask. I'll be happy to help.

Kind Regards,
Mark Richmond
Chefknivestogo



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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:50 pm
Posts: 141
Mark,
Thanks. I'll wait for the small atom 140 plate to arrive. I have not yet used oil on the arkansas stones, though I have
Norton's on hand. In your video is where I learned about the importance of knocking down the edges and that
plate looks like the ticket.

I may be in the short line of those still using an arkie stone and eventually in the company of those that
realized how much better it was to use something like a Sharpton stone. Until I give in, would you recommend
that I use oil? I'm still practicing with water in a spray bottle right by the sink and if my little wustof is an
example, not much of edge when I do the paper test. From what I read, oil or water..or whatever...the choice seems to be
subjective. The rub is that once i go to oil, I'm committed and it would not be a good idea, then,
to contaminate that diamond plate if I ever have an opportunity to use it on a water stone plate...like a Sharpton??

Whatever is being taught as I skill, I give thumbs up to highlighting "common mistakes."
Re the wobble mistake, I was struck by a couple of videos...yours included...that you were
stoking on the diagonal. My stones are ok in length but not width...only 2inches. Took me a while
to use the diagonal approach. In my mind, this made the most of the width which, in turn, kept
the blade flat with less chance for wobble...at least that's my guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:01 pm
Posts: 210
"I sense that the important thing is feeling the blade on the stone." Bill, you'll find as you progress in skill, this is one of the most important factors in free-hand sharpening. Even holding a consistent angle becomes second nature once you learn to develop an acute sensitivity to feedback from your stones, because you can at once recognize when you transition from the secondary bevel (perhaps while thinning) verses the primary cutting edge. - Josh


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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 79
Having started out years ago with Arkansas stones, the biggest issue I have with today's product is that they are most inconsistent, both between stones and across the same stone. And many are not flat to boot. I still use a Norton 3-stone bath setup for some of my shop tools, but now that I have been thoroughly addicted to all things Japanese (thanks to Mark and all the good people here at CKTG), sharpening the shop tools is a bit of a dissatisfying experience. Whether you talk about composite waterstones (Shapton Glass and Chosera are my preference) or JNats, their consistency is superior to Arkansas or Norton. Probably a matter of Japanese insistence on QC at the plant or quarry.
+1 on the comments about learning the "feel" of proper free-hand sharpening. Like any other manual process, formation of muscle memory takes time and practice. Get a couple of beater knives and get to the stones - its the only way to answer your questions in a way that will stick in the brain! Good luck!
Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
Posts: 259
Since you have the oil, I recommend using it. When I used to use oil stones, I adopted a "slow and steady wins the race" mindset. Arkansas stones work nicely, its just that they take forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Begginer sharpener questions.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:05 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:50 pm
Posts: 141
"The feel" is what floats my boat. I'm wired to have an obsessive like approach on the front end but along the way
it's always about the satisfaction of that feel. And, there's that intangible of meditation in motion. Ergo, I'm here and
glad to get feedback. I have used oil on stones before. The slurry makes a mess but it does improve the feel,
and I imagine the slurry, in turn, helps with the grind. Maybe? I'm still taking in all the details. I look forward to
getting the 20x magnifier. This way I'll be able to know what I'm doing right rather than just relying on a paper test
which is way too late.

Later after I experiment with the arkansas stones and try some stropping as part of the progression I may be back
to ask for suggestions on other stones with the idea of keeping this adventure down to under 150.00.


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