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 Post subject: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 3
Hello all
Could anyone make recommendation on the best progression for my budding knife collection which currently includes Ginsan and R2 cores. I am pretty handy but will be learning on some 4 star heckles and inexpensive white #2s. You could recommend 2 levels. Absolute beginner and any add-ons that an intermediate to advance sharpener might require.
While I am thinking the shapton glass would be a good learning platform, I am open to other synthetic or natural products.
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:57 pm
Posts: 150
Location: Central Illinois
If I was starting out buying sharpening equipment I would go with an Atoma 400 diamond plate, Shapton Pro 1k, and a Shapton Pro 5k. The diamond plate can be used to lap the stones as well as perform more serious repairs. To save money you could substitute the DMT Course Diaplate for the Atoma and/or a Suehiro Rika 5k for the Shapton 5k. I think that system would easily handle most if not all, of your sharpening needs. I am sure others will give you more options worth consideration.

For an aide in getting started check out some of the videos on Youtube. I am partial to the methods used my Murray Carter. He also sells a couple of videos (you can get them as downloads) that are worth the modest cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:03 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:29 am
Posts: 447
I would also start with the Atoma plate but recently I got the Nubatama Ume 1K xx hard stone and I like it a lot better than my Shapton 1K. After that I only have Shapton and King stones (which I'm eliminating).


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:02 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 2296
I like the Shapton Pro/Atoma rec.

As to the two level thing, there are cheaper stones, though the Shapton Pro are not pricey, but there are no stones "more appropriate" for a beginner. The reason is that an experienced sharpener values a stone that works quickly, leaves a good edge, does not cost too much, and preferably has a decent feel. A beginner needs a stone that cuts quickly, is easy to maintain, and gives good results while feeling reasonably good in the process. There is a lot of overlap here. No one thinks, "I'm new so I don't mind a stone that no matter how long I sharpen, it never makes my knife sharp."

Now, as craig pointed out, the Atoma is well worth the investment but it is slow to pay for itself unless you do a lot of volume. The DMT will last many years with a casual sharpener, but the Atoma will last more.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:13 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:52 am
Posts: 594
Either Chosera 400, 1k & 3k or
Shapton Pro 220, 1k & 5k would work well.

The Choseras are more expensive but are also larger and thicker and comparatively finer than the same grit rating from other manufacturers.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:23 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 991
I can't argue either! The Atoma 400 with a Shapton or Nubatama 1k to follow would be a good start. I usually recommend the shaptons but it's always good to switch things up so Nubatama it is. To compliment the XXHard Ume 1k I highly recommend the Ume 4k. It handles wear resistant steels a bit better than the Shapton pro 5k and yields a edge with more bite. Hard to say one is better than the other but the 4k Ume is a bit more versatile.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 3
thank you all for your suggestions and information. I have gone the way of the Choosera 400, 1000, 3000, 5000. As well I have ordered a sink bridge and an Idahone fine. This weekend, when I get off this storm ravaged island, I am going to pick up some balsa, leather and diamond paste to make some strops. A flattening plate will follow in the new year.

My plan is to start putting in time on the stones with our old, german knives(many) progress to friends' questionable knives and move to some of the cheaper Yamashin white #2 (nikiri and ko bocho, one of these may even need some thinning) then the tojiro's (Shirogami Deba and DP honesuki) prior to moving on to the wife's Christmas present, a Kurosaki R2 210 Gyuto and my Kinehiro ginsan 240 and business partner's gift the 240 Takayuki 240 damascus. I expect I'll be some months before attempting the latter three…and maybe a private lesson with someone who knows best. In for a penny in for a pound….

Again, I thank you all and apologize for my tardy response.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:02 pm 
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@sacbc - do yourself a BIG favor and start learning with the 1K Chosera on your Yamashin White #1 knives. They will sharpen up much more easily than dull German knives (I'm assuming stainless) and give you confidence. That 1K will cut quickly enough to make good progress. Check your work often to see how you're doing and make corrections. The 400 might cut a bit too fast, making mistakes happen more quickly than you want at this stage.

For now, don't worry about thinning. Just concentrate on getting a good edge bevel. Paint Sharpie on the entire edge bevel on both sides to see where you're grinding. I'd say try and match the OOTB edge bevel angles for now.

Use the 400 for your 2nd phase - sharpening your old knives. Remember, your create a clean, sharp bevel on your first stone, then refine from there. Trying to fix issues with higher grit stones is counterproductive.

The three knives you mentioned should touch up easily on the 3K stone, if you still have a decent edge and just want to touch them up a bit. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how nicely your Yamashin's will respond to sharpening. You WILL get spoiled by a good Shiro-ko (White #1) steel.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4722
Very good choice in stones. Would like to hear some thoughts on that Kurosaki and Kanehiro!



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass progression for r2 and ginsan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:22 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 2296
+1/2 to Steve's recommendation. The German knives won't take awesome edges easily so they can be very disappointing to first time sharpeners. I wouldn't turn you away from sharpening them, it is good practice just to get the motions down. But do not expect too much and do not progress past the 1k stone, the steel really can't take that much refinement. The Yamashin will blow you away compared to the Germans in terms of the edge it will take and the ease with which it will take an edge.


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