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 Post subject: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Hi,
I make high-end furniture on commission. I recently bought 2 sets of chisels (dovetail and bench) made by Akio Tasai and they are finally on the way. I have always used man-made waterstones to do all of my sharpening, but I think I'd like to use the natural stones on these chisels to be sure that I'm getting everything out of them that they're capable of. However, I don't really want to make a $700 mistake and I would love it, if you had a couple of minutes to spare. Thanks a lot.
Pat



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Mark Richmond
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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Tell me what you are using now to sharpen. I usually try to fit a stone in with what your using currently to save you money. Also, tell me your routine from start to finish.



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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 pm
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Right now I'm using Norton stones, Ohishi stones, DMT diamond plates (for both flattening stones and initial sharpening), MDF hones with chromium oxide and a range of diamond pastes from 3 micron down to .25 microns for polishing. I have a dedicated sharpening station in my shop and I try to never let a chisel or plane iron get to the point where it takes more than a couple of minutes to restore the edge to the point where you can shave hair with it.
The new chisels however are in a class by themselves. They were sharpened and honed at the Tasai shop before they were sent out and I'd like to be able to keep them as sharp and polished as they were when they left. I think that the only way I can be assured of that is to use natural stones. I figured if I used as close as I could afford to what he (Tasai) used originally, the outcome would rest on my ability to sharpen. Sort of a "do the best you can with what you've got" kind of thing.
As far as my routine goes, it usually only takes a minute or 15-20 strokes on a 10,000 gr stone to raise a wire on the bevel edge, 2-4 pull strokes with the back (which has already been polished to a mirror finish)flat on the same stone to get rid of the wire, then a few pull strokes on as many of the hones as needed to restore the mirror. That's the "normal" routine.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:32 pm 
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I assume these chisels are blue steel. Congrats!

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 pm
Posts: 5
The have just been delivered!!! They are truly works of art. I can't even explain how excited I am
right now. I have LUSTED after some Tasai chisels for years, and when a friend just dropped dead a while ago, it changed my outlook on a lot of things, and the price of the chisels vs. the enjoyment I would get from them was one of the things. Be back in a while-- I'm going to go
unpack them before I just pop.

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 pm
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The chisels Tasai makes he uses his own "blend" of steel called Yasuki steel which is supposedly very similar to blue steel. I know that there is supposed to be a difference between blue steel (tougher, better edge retention) and white steel (ability to take a keener edge), but I think at the level of craftsmanship that the top blacksmiths in Japan operate at, the differences between the two would almost be academic to me. I can see how it might be noticeable in a high-quality knife where the edge angle is more acute, doesn't have the mass behind the edge that a chisel does, and, hopefully doesn't get struck with a mallet like a dovetail chisel, but I doubt that I'd be able to tell the difference, at least in a chisel or plane iron.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Let's see them!

So I would suggest you get a good high grit polishing stone that is very hard. Stones need to be dead flat for good chisels and hard stones will stay flat much longer than softer ones. Try adding the Ozuku as your final finisher. It's super fine and very hard and should work well with your current routine.



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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 pm
Posts: 5
I have a shopping cart all loaded up and I was just waiting to hear from you and ,as a matter of fact, I did have the Ozukuyama Asagi on the list. I'd love to be able to send pictures, but I am the most computer-illiterate person, probably in the world. It took me more than 2 hours yesterday just to figure out how to get a message post on the forum. I know how the camera part works but I don't know how to get the picture into the message. Just a by-product of being old and not growing up with computers. I am,
however, really good at shopping on the Internet! Here's my list. Tell me if you can think of anything that I missed.
2 Chu Nagura stones
1 Binsui Natural stone
1 Ozukuyama Asagi
1 Shobu San Natural stone
1 Jyunsyouhonyama small size
1 Rock hard felt pad 3x11
1 Horse leather strop 3x11
I would have preferred the kangaroo leather strop, but you were out of them. Guess I'll keep checking. Thanks a lot.

Pat

P.S. You should advertise or get hooked up some way with some woodworking publications and websites. I
know a ton of people that would kill or die for natural stones, but we've always been told that they are
prohibitively expensive. Your site proves that to be untrue. I've paid at least as much and sometimes
more for man-made stones which will never give the same results. If they did, the old Japanese
woodworkers and blacksmiths, who have that choice at their local stores, would be using the man-
made stones. Just an opinion, but I'll bet I'm not far off.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural stones for my new chisels.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:43 am 
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Try some diamond spray to use on the leather. Otherwise you'll have tons of fun with this order.



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