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 Post subject: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:41 pm
Posts: 60
I'm having a bit of trouble getting a good edge off of my 1k stone, a King 1k/6k combo and am trying to sort out what I'm doing wrong. Or maybe I'm expecting too much of that stone.

After thinning out my Artifex a little on a coarse DMT plate I proceeded to use that same plate to start my progression and found it quickly put a good starting edge on the knife. It would even shave a little. When I move to the 1k King that edge seems to get worse. I'm definitely getting a burr on the 1k and following my normal steps but the edge doesn't get to a point I'm happy with it. If I skip the 1k and spend extra time on my green brick, everything is fine. I'd rather not spend all that extra time on the green brick though.

Any thoughts? I'd prefer not have to replace a grit I already own, but will if that king is just a pile. I never use the 6k side except for quick stropping.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Is the 1k flat?

Do you finish on the 1k with light strokes?

Are you removing the burr completely? (odd question after our recent debate...hahaha!!!)



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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:19 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
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I had the King Ice Bear 800, 1200, and 6k for a long time. Assuming the performance is similar to the 1k/6k combo then part of it may be the stone just sucks. IMHO, the Green Brick may actually cut faster than the 1k King as long as you don't let the stone load up on you and start polishing too soon. I did like the King 6k ok. It was not awesome but the difference between the King 6k and the stones I use today in that range is much closer than the difference between my coarser Kings and the stones I replaced them with.

One thing that does suggest it might be a technique issue though is the edge should not get worse going from a diamond plate to a 1k stone. This could relate to burr management or bevel angle consistency or something I am completely failing to imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:41 pm
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The 1k should be flat, or at least as flat as that DMT plate. I finish with light strokes on both the plate and the 1k as well, maybe 3 passes on each side. Perhaps I'm not doing enough of this since the plate probably creates a pretty burr?

I also deburr with a wine cork before switching stones, but I don't have any magnification to confirm this is doing an adequate job. I trying to learn to go by (admittedly novice) feel.

Not to add fuel to the burr removal debate but could it be that I'm not removing the burr very well after using the plate and what I think is a new burr on the 1k is in fact the same one from the plate and it's just finally getting worn off, leaving a mediocre edge that I'm attributing to the 1k? I'm not sure I'm explaining my thinking clearly here though.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:39 pm 
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You can test your theory by tapping (harder than you'd like, most likely) the edge after the plate on your cutting board. If the edge fails within a few taps, you either had a burr or a wire edge.

Still, I don't think this could be the issue. I'm certain that I could carry a burr over from a coarser stone (or plate) to a 1k and get a good edge. That you're nearly going backwards is troubling.

What knife are we talking about?? Shouldn't matter, but let's add it to the equation at least.

That you can fix the issue with the green brick is the part that's totally screwing any hope I have to help.

Perhaps you're not being aggressive enough in the burr removal after the 1k?!?! Perhaps the green brick is aiding in the burr removal due to it's nature?!?! A few light strops on a stone like that might be pulling some more burr off. All things you've said really only leave me with something to do with the burr.

The 1k King isn't my favorite stone, but you should be able to improve upon the DMT plate with it without much issue.



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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:41 pm
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It's a 240 Artifex. I'll start back on the plate, get more aggressive with the burr removal and try the test you suggest. We'll see if it helps or at least provides some more insight into what I'm doing wrong. My suspicion is still that I have a user issue here, not a tool issue. That being said, I'd love to get a better 1k at some point as it's a good stopping point for a couple commonly used knives in our kitchen.

Thanks both for your thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Keep us updated!



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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
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I have a king 800 that cuts about as fast as my green brick when its really wet. My advice is either keep working the 1k or skip it altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:18 pm 
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I'm thinking that there is still a residual burr from the plate that gives the knife a feeling of a decent edge and as you smooth the teeth of the burr on the 1k it feels that the knife is getting duller. If you work the 1k longer at this point and take the burr closer to the apex it will begin to feel sharper again. And yes, I think it's time for a better 1k, you'll thank yourself later. You can still use the King on your cheaper stuff.



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 Post subject: Re: 1k Trouble
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:29 pm 
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Did you generate a burr with your 2k GB? It isn't mentioned. You may just be getting a perfect edge without generating burr. Congrats if this is it!

The King stones has low abrasive concentration, so they aren't a favorite stone for me either. BUT you can generate a good edge with it. Murray Carter swears by the stone, while most of us swear at the stone and he can get a decent edge.

I strongly suspect technique. You can generate burr and still be rounding off the edge. A lower grit density means you will require more strokes so this means you are more likely to be rounding it off. Once you remove the burr you no longer have a perfect edge but a fracture plane. This acts like a serrated edge and passes the 3 finger test quite nicely.

How are you determining that you have a better edge at DMT coarse/1k King / 2k GB?

I would strongly suggest you get a loupe at 10x to LOOK at the edge. This will probably tell us more and help us solve this mystery. You don't HAVE to use it all the time, but it will speed your learning curve immensely.

I believe Adam, Jeff, JM and Cedar (all the posters in this thread) raise some very good possibilities. Magnification will help sort this out.

It is worthwhile trying another 1k, but that alone isn't the core problem. It's technique.

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Ken



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