It is currently Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:26 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 2 [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:25 pm
Posts: 41
Location: TN, USA
Greetings all, first post. I've read a number of threads and searched the forum for things like "VG10" and "Shun" and there is a lot of good info, but there's a of information to digest and it seems like many of the dicussions are geared towards people who sharpen professionally or are professional chefs, neither of which fit me.

I am a casual home cook. New to Japanese-style knives, with a small assortment of recently acquired Shun knives. Mostly VG-MAX core (Premier and Classic) and one SG-2 core (Kaji). Also have a Shun Premier honing steel (came with the starter set).

Knives are rather new with a very sharp factory edge, kept stored in Shun knife block (same model as the one sold on CKTG). Used on a hinoki-wood cutting board, following Shun's "best practices" - push cutting, no chopping, hand-wash and dry before storage, etc.

I have some sharpening experience but with softer steels on oil-stones (Crystolon, India, Arkansas), strop on leather with green hardware-store compound, plus have a few diamond hones (DMT polka-dot 6" coarse, fine, extra fine). I recently added a CKTG 400/1000 diamond plate, the CKTG 11x3 balsa strop with Richmond magnetic strop base, and 1 micron HA diamond spray, but haven't used it much yet. I also have a Spyderco Sharpmaker with the standard medium and fine stones. Most of this has been used for sharpening my pocket knives, though I have sharpened up our old abused kitchen knives and they are now also very sharp

I am assuming that none of that stuff I already have (except the balsa strop and diamond spray) is right for the Shun knives?

It would seem I need a waterstone or two, based on reading all of the other threads here. I am trying to strike a balance between not going too cheap and getting something I would outgrow or is not ideal for the task, versus going overboard for an expensive set up that would be more than I would ever need.

So where's a good place to start? I don't have a workspace other than the kitchen counter and sink, so I was thinking something in the "splash and go" category would be good. I am guessing that is Shapton Pros or Naniwa Choseras, but those seem pretty pricey. I guess I also need a flattener of some kind, like the Atoma plates. But when I look at some of the starter sets, you can get north of $200 pretty quickly, and right now the post-Christmas budget is a little tight.

I had been thinking about a 1000/6000 combo stone of some kind for about $60-ish, but I don't know if that progression is too big of a jump, or if the combo stones available are of the right formulation for VG-10.

I appreciate any suggestions.

Also - the honing steel that came with the set - OK to use with the Shun knives, or no? I have seen plenty of posts here indicating not to use a steel hone on harder Japanese steel, but I don't know if Shun's VG-MAX at 60 HRC qualifies. I know how to properly use a hone (slow, light, few strokes, both sides, maintain angle), but I don't want to waste time with it if it is of no value or could hurt the blades.

Thanks!



_________________
- John
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:15 am
Posts: 2923
Location: Raleigh, NC
We have been discussing this at some length in another thread, linked here, and on the lower end quite a few of us find the Crystolon stones are workable even for harder steels. Your diamond plate could certainly pick up where they left off. Two stones sound fine to me for rounding out your set, though the result will be perhaps unweildly.

You wouldn't be the first person to buy a 1k/6k for a Shun, and they will work for at least the VG-10/Max knives. Even so, I think your ideal here is one of the Shapton 2k stones and a high grit polishing stone to preceed your strop. Finishing stones seldom need a long soak. Coming from sharpening pocket knives I suspect you would appreciate the differences between the Kings and a Shapton Pro or Glass. They are tangibly better in most ways and the Kaji in particular would benefit from faster stones.

I don't find Shun's knives respond particularly well to honing. Both steels areole prone to microchipping than rolling. If you ended up getting splash and go stones you would be much better served stropping on your finishing stone or balsa strop.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 1626
The 400/1000 plate was a good purchase and could be followed by a 2k Shapton pro easily. After the 2k use the 1 micron strop to finish the edge.

Don't use the honing rod.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 1091
I've been able to get some really good results on vg10 Shuns with the naniwa green brick. Couple that with a strop and your set.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:25 pm
Posts: 41
Location: TN, USA
Lepus: Yes, I was reading that thread and Ken's Nubatama thread which is what made me decide to just ask, since it seemed to be a fairly current topic. I didn't want to just hijack that one with my questions.

Jason: I follow your posts over on Bladeforums which is what led me to buy the CKTG 400/1000 plate and the balsa strop and diamond spray here, and is also what led me to the CKTG web site and forums. That was before I decided to up our game in kitchen knives, and was just looking to improve my other sharpening gear.

I understand the need for coarser stones to fix problems, set bevels, and get a burr quickly, but right now none of my knives are in bad shape. My older knives are some ancient Chicago Cutlery knives we've had for about 25 years, a few assorted lower-end Henckels, but those respond well to my existing methods.

jmcnelly85: Thanks for your post as well. Sorry, you posted while I was composing this. I've looked at that stone (that is a BIG brick) and read the reviews. Seems like I have walked into the great "1k vs. 2k for first stone" debate. :)



_________________
- John
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:56 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:35 am
Posts: 451
Location: Annapolis, MD
If you have the 400/1K diamond stone, I agree that this is a good foundation, and that a 2K or 3K stone and your strop is all you should need ... unless the sharpening bug bites you.

I do a lot of Shuns, Globals and the like. The Green Brick was a nice suggestion, however coming from the diamond stones which are hard plates, a harder water stone might be nice for consistency. The Shaptons (Pro and Glass) are in that category as is the Nubatama 2k Ume speckled.

These knives do have a tendency to chip rather than wear. For this reason, I'd suggest ignoring the honing rod,



_________________
Greg
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:55 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:25 pm
Posts: 41
Location: TN, USA
Ok, so far sounds like something in the 2K range to start, and unanimous against using the honing rod.

So the diamond plate is OK with the Shun steel? I read an earlier post by pjwoolw who recommended against using diamonds with them. (I had bought it before I owned the Shuns, with the intent of using it to reprofile and/or maintain some D2 folders.)



_________________
- John
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:03 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:45 pm
Posts: 2607
Location: Skype k_schwartz
Ignore the honing rod. Use it for toasting marshmallows :)

For Shun VG10s try not to go more acute than 15 or 16 degrees per side. The steel doesn't respond well to more acute angles - giving you chipping and other problems.

The 1k/6k jump is rather large and I would agree that you seem to have covered the 1k range adequately, so a 2k stone sounds like a good start. You can go back later to improve your 1k choices later as funds allow. Hold off on 6k stones or stropping for now until you perfect your edges at a coarser grit first. So for a 2k splash and go, consider the 2k Shapton pro or glass stone. For a stone with a bit more feedback consider the 2k Nubatama speckled ume or the Chocera (pro) 2k.

---
Ken



_________________
ksskss@earthlink.net
My Facebook Page
Ken Schwartz Forum on CKTG
Ken'sCorner
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:21 am 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 4393
On soapbox...

For those who are of the opinion that Ken only likes to promote Nubatama or natural stones for all situations, I submit the above post as exhibit "A" for your consideration :-).

Off soapbox

@jc57 - I own the Atoma 400 and the CKTG 400/1000 combination plate and my approach is to use a 400 level plate when I want to cut an edge bevel quickly on a dull knife. I then switch to water stones to refine that edge because I like the feel much better than any diamond plate I've used. I've also experimented with the 400/1000 plate on pocket and utility knives for a toothy edge as I believe Jason B. has recommended.

You might be surprised how quickly the recommended 2K stones work on the small edge bevels you typically find on double bevel kitchen knives. Besides it's great usefulness as a single stone solution for maintaining sharp edges, a 2K could quickly refine an edge created with your 400/1000 plate, though down the road you might enjoy a fast cutting 600-800-1K stone more as a transition between the 400 plate and the 2K stone. Just my non-professional $0.02


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sharpening setup for Shun VG-MAX and VG-10 kinves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:09 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:49 am
Posts: 41
I started with the 1k/6k combo stone thing for similar knives. And the jump from 1 to 6 felt significant even when I really had no idea what I was doing.

I have the 2k Nubatama speckled ume Ken mentioned, and definitely recommend it. Great feedback. Can't compare to the Shapton or Chocera.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred