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 Post subject: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 17
Hi All,

So the time has come. I've been bouncing around forums and websites for probably 6 months as I finished my kitchen and am ready to drop $$ on new knives.
My last purchase "way" back was Global forged. Back then if you googled you got 4 choices. Global ,Henkels, Shun, Wusthof.
Holy crap how things have changed !! So ill get right to it, I'm hoping for some great feedback and it seems this is the place.
Below are the basics.. and then I've listed below that what I have seen "generally" to be solid choices in 4 different price categories in which I've highlighted what
has drawn me the most. Whatever I buy will be on display as part of my decor.. so fit/finish is a key aspect.
I will be buying 3 knives Gyuto/Santoku/petty.. but for this purpose I'm only looking at the 240 Gyuto as the others can most likely follow suit within the brand...off we go

1. Are you right handed? - right
2. What type of knife are you interested in?.. gyuto
3. What size knife are you looking for? 240 mm
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? - Stainless ONLY (carbonext??)
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? Black Western ONLY
6. How much did you want to spend? - I don't have a restrictive budget so whatever fits "best perf/price ratio"
7. Do you know how to sharpen? - semi..no worries

Here is what I've seen so far. again my initial picks are bold

LOW RANGE:
Tojiro DP CKTG
JKC KG-7 JKC
Fujiwara FKM CKTG

LEVEL 1
JKC carbo next JKC
Togiharu INOX KORIN
Misono Moly anywhere

LEVEL 2
Masamoto VG CKTG
Kikiuchi TKC Kikiuchi Direct
Misono 440 anywhere

HIGH LEVEL (not sure here)

Masamoto ST JKC
JKC Hattori JKC
Misono UX10
Gesshin Ginga

Im sure there's tons more but my head is spinning so THANKS !


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2417
Fergie - I would recommend either the Masamoto VG 240 or the Kikuichi TKC 240. The TKC is semi-stainless, but if you clean and dry when you finish using it and don't let moisture sit on the blade, you should have no issues.

The TKC is a little lighter, with a thinner blade. You could ask Mark when he expects more TKC 240's to arrive - he gets them pretty regularly.

Both will be long term, solid performers in the kitchen.

If you want to start out at a lower price, either the Tojiro DP or the FKM 240 are very, very nice for the money. FKM is a little lighter, slightly softer steel (more forgiving) than the DP.

The TKC probably has the best steel of the four I mentioned.

IMO you'll get more for your money with brands other than Misono, although the UX10 series are very nice knives.

No experience with the JCK or Gesshin lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Posts: 2833
Man.....let's see what I can make of your lists:

High Level first:

Masamoto ST.....very little known about this knife by really anyone. Years ago I recall someone having one and not thinking very highly of it. I wouldn't put it above the TKC to save my life.

JCK Hattori.....which one? There are the Forum knives, the HD series, and the KD series. Can't believe you'd be talking about the KD. So we're down to the Forum and HD. The Forum knives are amazing knives. Great, great F&F, nice handle material, great VG10 heat treat (the only HT of VG10 I've ever liked really). Still, not better than the TKC unless you purely count F&F. In all other categories, the TKC wins. The HD series is pretty to some.....we'll leave it at that. :)

Misono UX10.....same thoughts as the Hattori Forum knives above. If F&F are all that matters, these are nice. Not as good of geometry as the Forum knives, steel is very blah.....ehhh!!

Gesshin Ginga.....no thoughts, never used

Your "Level 2"

Masamoto VG is a decent enough knife. Good F&F, good profile, good HT.....I think they use plastic for the handle these days though.

Kikuichi TKC is an amazing performing knife for the money. If pure performance is all that matters, no other knife in your list should be considered save perhaps the CarboNext knives from JCK. Decent enough F&F, great, great steel, very good geometry (not laser, not workhorse.....oh so sweet), awesome profile.

Misono 440.....no....k?

Level 1:

JCK CarboNext.....never used, but I've heard it's a pretty close clone of the TKC. So, in that regard, it should be an amazing knife.

Togiharu Inox.....nice knives....probably a lot akin to the Hattori Forum knives....been a long time since I've used one, but it impressed me enough in the price point it was in.

Misono Moly.....probably a better knife than the Misono 440 and pretty close in use to the Togiharu. Good F&F, good stainless steel, nice profile.....a simple, no-nonsense knife.

Your Low Range.....why are you looking at knives in this category alongside knives in the other categories? I'd only be hunting here if I wanted to try Japanese knives for the first time which you've already done. Skip this category of yours....please.



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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 17
Adam... I meant to remove the JKC hattori Forums from the high end list.. Im not wild about the handle after further review

Sounds like the kikuichi is well praised.. Kikuichi direct has them in stock.

thanks all so far !


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:11 pm
Posts: 220
Location: San Diego
A few ramblings:

Tojiro vs. Fuji - two recent threads. If you are considering one of those knives, or perhaps going between the two, great reads. No need to regurgitate here.

Masamoto VG - great knife. I have one. It is a workhorse. Pretty heavy, even for yo handle. Takes good edge, keeps it for good amount of time, can be clean up with hone pretty easily. Yes, handle is POM (synthetic) material, but I really like it. My favorite yo handle that I have used (better than MAC pro, which is thought of by some as the pinnacle of yo production handles). Personal taste, yes. That said, unless you are looking for heftier knife, I think the bump up to the Kikuichi TKC is worth the money. Don't know why, just feels good. Maybe geometry as AM suggested. Fit and finish great. Engraved Kanji is nice touch (Masamoto VG and Misono UX10, for example, are printed).

Kikuichi TKC - see above.

Misono UX 10 - very good knife, but IMHO over priced, by a fair amount. I think there are better choices for less, certainly for same price point. The price jumped a fair amount over the last few years from memory.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 17
Im getting the vibe all over the plece that Misono is off the list...price hike not cohesive with quality/value.

Conversely, I getting tons of great vibe on the Kikuichi and the Masamoto.

I also don't think there is any reason to look at the low or High level any longer

So im streamlining to these only now... seems the are 4 solid choices to ponder.. Thanks so far !

JKC carbo next
Togiharu INOX
Masamoto VG
Kikiuchi TKC


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:33 pm 
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We just got the masamotos back in stock today after they were back ordered for several months. It's a good knife.



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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:14 pm
Posts: 17
so Mark of the 2 that you carry, the masamoto and the kikuichi whats your leaning in these regards
Ill throw in the Hiromoto Aogami for good measure, just saw that.
in order of...

best fit/finish
best handle for smaller hand
propensity for getting/staying the sharpest

Thanks !!


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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:11 pm
Posts: 220
Location: San Diego
The hiromoto, being AS (aogami super), is gonna have most edge retention and take the sharpest edge. Probably easiest to sharpen too. But it is carbon, which you said you weren't looking for?

Fit and finish on Masa VG and TKC are pretty similar. The TKC I used was eased on the choil/spine more than my Masa VG, stock. I don't know whether that was factory or consumer finish on the TKC - I'll email my buddy (whose knife it is) and see. I like the TKC aesthetically and functionally a bit more - slightly better profile and I like the engraved Kanji over printed. Chrysanthemum on TKC is very iconic and cool as well. Like I said before, I think it is worth the extra 30 bucks or whatever it is over the Masamoto unless you have a strong preference for the additional heft on the masamoto. Don't get me wrong - the Masamoto is a great knife, great blade, does very well (in home kitchen for me), and is very comfortable with handle size (I use pinch grip, so handles aren't a huge concern for me), weighting and balance. If I had it to do over, I would have got the TKC (hindsight is 20/20 kind of thing).


Last edited by socalboo on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Comes Another Newbie.. ready to Spend !
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 1085
The TKC will be the best knife on your list for a professional environment. I would choose it over Masamoto.

I agree with Adam, skip the low price point, you will outgrow it among your other options.

The TKC has excellent F+F, it isn't a flashy knife, but it is a great all around performer and is easy to sharpen and maintain.

Hiromotos Aogami super is a carbon steel core, FYI. It is stainless clad. Not a horrible option; can't really go wrong on CKTG anyway, just a matter of what you like.



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