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 Post subject: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:17 pm
Posts: 2
Hi,

Can you recommend a knife brand-model with a professional look and build, but in real full stainless steel. To be more specific, they are for home use and I don't want extra effort to take care of them. So, i'm looking for rust proof, even if I leave them wet for a weekend, no spots, as any other piece in my kitchen cutlery.

I see knifes like these http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hepros4pcfls.html, and I like their look and feel, but they seem to be hi carbon, which is good for the durability of the blade, but not for rust protection.

I am completely new to this of buying knifes, can you help me with some ideas on brands and specific models?

Thanks in advance for your attention.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:52 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1504
A few points to consider:

1) no knife should be left wet all weekend, it hurts their feelings.

2) cutlery steel is make of ~99% iron and between 0.7-1% carbon (give or take). That carbon range qualifies as "high carbon". Other elements are added to augment the properties of the steel to fit the need. The addition of chromium, for example, will increase rust resistance.

Point is, stainless steels have added elements to make them stainless, but they are still high carbon steels. Colloquially people refer to stainless and merely carbon steels differently, but marketing gurus at places like Henckles will confuse the issue by calling their steel high carbon stainless. Not untrue, but it is confusing.

3) are you looking for a chef's knife, a set, what sort of kit are you trying to build, and what is your budget?

4a) of the German manufacturers I am most fond of the Messermeister: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/messermei ... idian.html

4b) the following are good quality entry level Japanese styled stainless knives:
Tojiro DP: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojirodpseries.html
Fujiwara FKM: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmse.html
Richmond Artifex: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar.html

4c) All these should be stainless, there may be an outlier here or there, post what your looking at here and we'll confirm if you are unsure. The German knives tend to be softer steels so they take abuse better but generally under perform compared to their Japanese style counterparts. Whether or not you prefer durability or performance depends on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3718
"So, i'm looking for rust proof, even if I leave them wet for a weekend, no spots, as any other piece in my kitchen cutlery."

Stainless steel is exactly that "stainless" not "stain proof". Even the best quality stainless steel can discolor or "spot" if left wet or with food on it for a whole weekend.



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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
There are a few so called "stain-proof" steels out there, such as H1, X15 and N680.
I have only used H1, in a folder, and after an extended bath of salt water (shaking jar daily) there were no signs of rust on the blade.
Washers in handle were not made of H1 as I found out :roll:


I don't know of anyone making kitchen knives from these steels as edge retention IMO is lacking compared to even mediocre stainless steels (420 series), but I'm sure you could convince a custom knife maker to do some for you if you are really dead set on "stain-proof".


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 2763
In full disclosure, my family (not me) has left the following knives wet, in the sink, or otherwise uncleaned for a very long time with no ill effects:

Shun Classic knives
Suisin Inox
Misono Moly
Mac Superior
An AEB-L paring knife I made
Wusthof Classic knives

These knives are all still in my block and show no spots, stains, etc.

That's not to say they won't for you, and it's certainly not something I'd recommend. But, in my case, they've been fairly bomb proof.

Now, ask me what happens when the family leaves my rehandled Dojo paring knife in the sink. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!



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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:17 pm
Posts: 2
Thanks for all your answers,

As you know I'm not a chef, just a normal person trying to get a good set of knifes for home, preferable:
- Only one nice professional look / design (not build a set from mixed styles or brands)
- Durable low maintenance (I just got cold feet about buying an expensive set that will need much care and maintenance to stay shiny, and I understand that I may have to sacrifice good cutting edge to have "stainless")
- In a reasonable budget (Wouldn't like to spend more that $200 to get all in list below, may not be possible)

I look for a set with:
What I really need...
8" chef's knife
6" utility knife
8" bread knife

What I'd like to have...
6 steak knives (better if micro-serrated)

Nice to have...
Carving Fork
7" Santoku knife
All the rest are extras for me


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 654
Elcotizado,

The knives you linked to are indeed stainless. If you like those go for it. The Pro S line also has the Santuku etc. you are interested in.

If you're not seeing a lot of enthusiasm around here, it's because we're all past the matching set phase and would rather buy the correct tool for the job. And, like most tools, the best knives need a modicum of care. Professional chefs know that their knives might go neglected in the rigors of a commercial kitchen and often make the performance trade off of stainless. A home cook should be able to manage 30 seconds of washing and wiping to enjoy knives that are just fantastically sharp.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3718
My brother has the Pro S 7psc block set and loves them. They are very stain resistant and durable. Good knives for a home kitchen.



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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:38 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 151
Location: Austin tX
I say just get the artfex line 210,utility, and bread knife, oh and santoku all covered good price and great quality and stainless steel


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 Post subject: Re: Nice build knifes but in real stainless steel
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:15 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 633
Carbon steels need maintenance, but I wouldn't call them high maintenance. I have a chinese cleaver that is carbon and a simple wash and wipe dry after use has kept it rust free for the year or so that I have had it. My only advice for carbon steels is to get one that isn't super reactive, as that is the only reason I rarely use my cleaver. It requires maintenance DURING use to keep it from turning onions, potatoes, almost anything brown/dark at the edges. lol The white #1 in my Yamashins didn't exhibit any of that and I was able to wait until everything was cut before I washed and dried them to put them up. I have no clue what steel my cleaver is made of, but whatever it is takes a mean edge and hates any acidic foods with a passion. lol

All that being said, I have also been considering the Tojiro DP series and the Richmond knives for a 210mm gyuto (8" chef's). The AEB-L used in the Richmond stuff is supposed to be easy to sharpen. I have heard that VG10 like in the Tojiro DP line can be chippy, but I don't know to what extent or how accurate that info is. It is supposed to take a mean edge though and is popular in more expensive pocketknives. Their blades are nowhere near as thin or as hard though. I don't think you have to really sacrifice too much cutting ability by going to stainless, I just find the ritual I go through with carbon blades relaxing and I like the looks of a natural patina versus a shiny blade. I like my tools to look like they work for a living and have been sufficiently loved on for it. lol ;)


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