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 Post subject: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi, im very interested in buying this knife, and was wondering if it comes with a saya, or if you know where one can be bought to fit this knife. Thru your site I am aware that the konosuke saya will not fit.
I have also been looking at the kohetsu aogami super 210 gyuto. I feel it might be a little too light and thin for me, but i was wondering if you could help me compare the two. I plan to use whichever knife i purchase at work for prep approx 5-6 days a week.

thanks!

Joe



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Mark Richmond
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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Joe,

We can custom make a saya to fit that knife. Buy this and put a note in the comments box about making it for the kanehiro 210.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cuposaforany.html

They're both excellent knives. The kohetsu will hold up to the work load. It is thin but that won't matter. The Kanehiro is taller and thicker and a little heavier. Those are the main differences. I actually prefer the kohetsu if you are using it as a line knife. I guess I would choose a larger knife for prep.

Kind Regards,
Mark Richmond



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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Location: USA... mostly.
JOE <> I disagree with Mark, in that, I find the heft & integrity of the Kanehiro more desirable in a professional setting as a workhorse. I also prefer the Kanehiro handle as it is a bit longer. Round off the choil & spine on the Kanehiro, and you have the quintessential BADASS high performance workhorse that is comfortable & still lightweight. The Kohetsu is an outstanding product, but a bit too lightweight for my taste in the rigors of & potential abuse a professional environment introduces into the equation. I'm not saying it doesn't work in a pro kitchen, but as a 6-day-a-week main workhorse knife... I prefer the Kanehiro. Without doubt or question...

Furthermore, the Konosuke 240 saya <--link fits the Kanehiro AS 210.

Konosuke Funayuki, Kohetsu, Kanehiro... 210 comparisons:

Image



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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:15 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:45 pm
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I will make it a more difficult decision. I am on the other side of the fence. I use my knives 6 days a week in a professional setting and I prefer the lighter thinner variety. I once upon a time liked a knife to be heavier since I am a heavier guy and it felt right. Now I find that I get more precise and effortless cutting and fabrication out of a thinner knife that is lighter. I would choose the Kohetsu for both the price and its performance. Just my humble opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:03 am 
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JOE <> I don't think the preceding text confused anything beyond my ability to make a point succinctly. I do doubt it often...

I agree with Jason wholeheartedly as I prefer the thinner & lighter variety of knives. My all time favorite gyuto is the Suisin Inox Honyaki followed by the Konosuke Shironiko, if that tells you something. My inability to make my point concisely, I'll attribute to not having had dedicated enough time to the text, but when I said, " I find the heft & integrity of the Kanehiro more desirable in a professional setting as a workhorse." I was not calling the knife heavy; it is, in fact, a mere 155 grams. I was explaining that the Kanehiro has a feeling of inherent integrity when you use it, and it has a bit of heft with those extra grams. A bit of heft. It is still a very light knife as I illuminated in saying, "...workhorse that is comfortable & still lightweight."

Now, when we start getting into heavier knives, the benefits of weight become a detriment. For example, I used a 225gram 240 for a three-day run, and my forearm was actually sore afterward. Machine gunning foods was a chore whereas my forearm burned after long engagements, but let me tell you... said knife falls through food like a hot knife through butter. There is a give & take. Lightweight knives are great, but there is an absolute benefit to having some mass behind your cut.

Now, to each his own. The Kohetsu is 123grams. For those reading that have not used the Kohetsu, it is too light to imagine; you have to feel it. When I have said, "it's really a game changer"... I mean it for many reasons. I recommend the Kohetsu often because I love it, but I recommend it when I feel it is appropriate for the application.

I love lasers. I employ lasers... many. But... the 123 gram 210mm Kohetsu is so light it just doesn't have a workhorse feel in my hand. And when I say, "in my hand" I mean "in my soul." It's a VERY light knife in 210, and with that weight comes an airiness, as well. Bear in mind, we are talking about a 210 here; it is it's own animal with a unique dynamic attached to that length.

It is simply my preference. I am but one Chef.



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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:53 am 
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This thread has pointed out exactly why I started asking people if their knives or for a home or pro environment. As you've stated Melampus, a little bit of weight adds to cutting power, but adding too much increases fatigue. Home users can get away with using heavier knives and have no problem with fatigue as they aren't cutting large volumes of prep. But, some people just prefer lighter knives period. Most people asking questions on this sub-forum (knife recommendations) are fairly new to the world of Japanese knives, and pretty much any knife they pick up is going to seem light to them at first.

I would really like to start a thread about classifying the weights into general categories, (for a 240 gyuto) something like:

130-140 grams = featherweight
140-160 grams = light weight
160-200 grams = medium weight
200-220 grams = medium/heavy
220+ = Heavy weight

The numbers for a 210 would be a little different of course. Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I think it's worth talking about eventually.



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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 134
Knife Fanatic wrote:
I would really like to start a thread about classifying the weights into general categories, (for a 240 gyuto) something like:

130-140 grams = featherweight
140-160 grams = light weight
160-200 grams = medium weight
200-220 grams = medium/heavy
220+ = Heavy weight

The numbers for a 210 would be a little different of course. Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I think it's worth talking about eventually.


In addition, I would add your profile classifications, and which knives fit into each category i.e. convex/laser, flat/convex, convex/thin, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Kohetsu vs Kanehiro
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I think some of those terms I've used in videos can be cleaned up a little bit.

Basically we deal with 3 types of grinds: Convex, Flat, and Scandi.

There is full convex where the entire blade is gradually rounded, then Flat which is pretty much self-exclamatory, and Scandi.

What I used to call Flat w/convex on video is actually a low-convex to be sure, or in some cases I would say that very thin knives that are convexed are closer to being flat simply due to the thinness of the blade. You are right though, this stuff should be added to the knife info as well where we can, and I need to make sure not to use confusing terms anymore. ;)



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