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 Post subject: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7653
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark,

Few days ago I asked you about the shipping. Now I need help to do a good choice for my first knife, i've already search and read about material and constructive informations but i get more confused, so i think that a good advice from an expert like you are is best than a lot researches.
I immediatly tell you that i've got a good cutting skill but i'm a very newbie about a knives. I actually have a pairing and an utility knife of an Italian manufacturer that I consider like entry level and i also recently bought a 200mm slicing knife by wusthof that is a little bit better but i think that isn't yet a good knife. I also have some other knives like santoku, chef knife, bread knife, boning knife and so on but is an old and very bad set that i never considered.
My first ideas was to buy a gyuto and a santoku knife but i've understood that one good knife is better than two mediocre knives.
After this consideration i've decided to buy only a good gyuto, on your website i found some knives that could fit my budget and request, but i can't pick out one of them due to the type steel used for.
withe1, white2, blue2, vg10, aeb-l, 19c27...what's the mainly differences?
inox or non-inox?
what's the best price/quality ratio?
in light of this I show you my list of candidates, i also tell you that my budget is maximum 250$ cause i also reckoned that i must buy some maintenance accessories for sharpening, polish and storage it ( you also must recommend me some product that can help me to do a good maintenance; i've just seen all your videos about sharpening and i want to learn to sharpen my knives) .


shun premiere chef knife 10"
sugimoto wa-gyuto 240mm
tanaka damascus gyuto 240mm
Sakai yusuke 240mm gyuto
Sakai takayuki grand chef wa-gyuto 240mm
Sakai takayuki damascus wa-gyuto 240mm
konosuke hh wa-gyuto 240mm
konosuke hd2 wa-gyuto 240mm
konosuke white2 wa-gyuto 240mm


sorry for my bad english and long/boring mail
waiting a your professional advice, my best regards


Daniel



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
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Location: Cape Town - South Africa
konosuke hd2 wa-gyuto 240mm - hands down wins!

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hello Daniel,

I would suggest you get either the Konosuke HH or the Takayuki Grand Chef. Both are fully stainless and easy to sharpen. The Konosuke HD is also a really good knife and would be a good choice but it's semi stainless so it will discolor a little as you use it and you need to wipe it after you use it. I just think your first good knife should probably be stainless.

For sharpening stones I would suggest you get the Shapton Glass 1K and 4K just like you watched in my videos. They're easy stones to learn on and they work well with no soaking required.



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:15 pm
Posts: 3
thanks so much for the quickly reply, now I've some other questions

-what do you think about damascus knives? what's their feature and their negative sides?

-and how about a blue2 steel?

-in case of a semi stainless steel it's possible to mantain it bright and shine with a good and constant polishing or along in time it's inavoidable that it's come dark and dull?


Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Unless you're talking about a true damascus knife through and through (which none of the knives you listed are) then it's just a cladding to make the knife pretty and functions no differently than any other cladding.

It's just aesthetic.

Blue #2 is a Hitachi made knife steel. It's carbon, it's awesome.

The steel like in the HD will not patina like a carbon knife. You could keep it pretty well polished with ocassional polishing. Flitz would be your friend I reckon.

Of your initial list, the Konosuke HD is a great knife and my favorite among those you listed.

For stones, get the Bester 1,200 and the Suehiro Rika....both can be found on this page:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/besterstones.html



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:15 pm
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thanks Adam for your opinion and advices

like i said in the mail that Mark had promptly posted here, I'm a newbie about knives and I want to learn more so i've a new questions

when you're looking for a new knife how much important is the type of the steel to pick out your one?

there is some table that compare and classify different type of steel and explain relative features?

how about the ATS314 ?

@Adam: in your precedent reply you said that a damascus knives i listed has only an aestethic finish treatment, in case of a real damascus steel which are the benefits? and you can also show me one real damascus knife?

the last one question i've it's about the sharpening

there's some stone that fit better with one steel and goes worse with another one type of steel?
and also, what's the right progession on the stone grain that i must consider? adam you recommended to use a 1200 and after a 6000 while Mark suggest to use a 1000 and a 4000 stones. in some video i saw a sharpening starting from 500 and doubling a grit to 1000, 2000, 4000 till 8000 for the last step.
there is some rules to follow to choose grit of the stones?

thanks

daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:11 pm 
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That's not really fair to ask me how important steel is and I have to be careful in this regards to. I've tried too many kitchen knives and I have to put my place in yours to recommend a knife because if I were buying a knife, it wouldn't be for the same reasons you are.

If I were in the market for a knife today it would be for a specific something that I wanted to try/see/feel/etc. A new steel could be one of those, so to me what steel a knife is made of is likely paramount...a deciding factor if you will. If I don't like the geometry, I can change it quickly. :)

As someone new to these knives, you should be more concerned with other aspects of the knife. Maker, his knowledge of heat treating a knife, the geometry of the knife, the profile of the knife, and the handle long before what steel it uses. Yes, steel is important and even as a newbie you could tell the difference between many of them. But, assuming it's at least a good steel with a good heat treat, those other things will make you like/love/hate a knife so much more than what steel it acutually uses (unless you rust a carbon knife maybe).

I don't know of a table like the one you're after, but that's not a bad idea. Maybe I should make one. :)

ATS314 doesn't exist that I know of.....I believe Mark made a typo and it should be ATS34. Its a good steel that is the Japanese made version of 154CM.

A discussion about the benefits of a through and through damascus blade (or lack there of) will never end.

I'll say virtually none, but if you really want to have that discussion, perhaps start another topic. :)

Yes, some stone's work better with certain steel types.

Don't worry about it though....all stones work with virtually all steels....seriously, don't worry about this.

The general rule is to double the grit.....so 500/1000/2000/4000/8000. However, it's not set in stone. You could theoretically only have a 10,000 grit stone.....it would just take a REALLY long time to sharpen. The closer together the grits are, the quicker the next stone goes. But, the more stone you use, the more likely you are to mess up. I like the 500/1200/4000/10000 I use now. It works very well for me. It might, or might not for you. :)



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 pm 
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ATS314 is the old equivalent of SKD 8 steel - very similar to VG-10.

ATS34 is a different beast.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Ooof....is it not a typo then?



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 Post subject: Re: Which of these gyutos would you suggest?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Nope, but I guess only Mark can actually verify whether or not it is.

:)



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