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 Post subject: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:49 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:40 am
Posts: 46
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Hi,

I've been "lurking" on this forum for about a month now, having recently acquired an interest in Japanese knives after a trip to Japan and a stop at the Aritsugu shop at the Nishiji market in Kyoto. I was wondering if anybody had any information regarding what influences the reactivity of white and blue paper steels?

Basically, I read that white steel should be more reactive than blue steel as it is purer and doesn't contain any chromium which lowers reactivity. This is not what I am observing with my White #2 Yuki Gyuto (240mm) which seems to be way less reactive and less apt to taking patina on its cutting edge than my Blue #2 Moritaka petty.

Would the heat treatment be the determining factor as to the tendency to reactivity?



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Ownership experience: Aritsugu, Masakage Yuki Koishi & Kiri, Takamura, Moritaka, Ashi, Masahisa, Tojiro, Yamashin, Victorinox.
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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:52 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:46 am
Posts: 375
Location: Northern Illinois
I don't have a lot of experience with carbon (I own an AS knife and have tested a white #2) but have found carbon blades to be much less reactive then i originally thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 1374
Are you cutting the same ingredients with both knives? Consider the cladding is stainless with the Yuki where Moritaka uses Iron. I have found that my Aogami knives really don't get on well with certain ingredients, like Mangoes for example. The blades instantly take an issue with it and start a fierce reaction if they are raw of patina. White steels don't seem to behave this way with Mangoes, but Tomatoes will light them up in a similar fashion.



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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 3330
In addition to what's been said thus far, make sure each knife does or doesn't have a lacquer coating. I didn't know either knife came with such.....but it wouldn't surprise me. The coating is often applied to carbon knives to prevent rust after manufacturer and prior to sale.



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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:40 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:58 pm
Posts: 402
+1 to everything above. Esp. that different ingredients react more or less strongly with certain steels. I also think that there can be a lot of variation in the same steel from different makers or different batches of knives. I'm also sure there are influences from the forging process that can affect reactivity. Put it this way... I have 4 or 5 white steel knives and they have all had different levels of reactivity and have taken on different patinas. Same goes for the Blue and AS knives I have.

I also have a Yuki and have noticed almost no reactivity on the core steel. It has only taken on a very light gray after a fair amount of use on the full spectrum of ingredients. I used to have a Moritaka KS and noticed that it would turn completely purple/black after only a few onions, so I my experience backs up what you are saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:40 am
Posts: 46
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Ok, thank you all for the information. This is what I have noticed:

Yuki: Cutting onions, carrots, leek, oranges - a light grey-brown patina appeared while cutting the onions, but it took several onions to colour it. As far as I know and can see, the Yuki does not have any lacquer. No smell detected.

Moritaka: Cutting onions, carrots, leek and oranges - patina appears very quickly on any spot where the lacquer has come off (I can tell there is lacquer as I can spot where it has fallen off). It also puts out a smell when cutting anything acid (oranges, onions). I forced a patina and the smell vanished. I then polished the cutting edge (10º) without removing the patina higher up the blade edge (on the cladding) and it smells once again when cutting, so I assume it is the Blue paper 2 steel that smells as it is the only part not covered with either lacquer or patina.

I guess that I will have to force a patina on the Moritaka if I want to use it - the smell is quite potent and disagreeable. That being said, it is a very nice knife, and having sharpened it a few times and reduced it's bevel to 10º per side, I didn't notice any of the overgrind issues I have read about. I just love the Yuki so far.

Thanks again!



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~Christopher
Ownership experience: Aritsugu, Masakage Yuki Koishi & Kiri, Takamura, Moritaka, Ashi, Masahisa, Tojiro, Yamashin, Victorinox.
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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:15 am
Posts: 3050
Location: Raleigh, NC
I have found more variability between different knives, which is to say different heat treatments, than between white and blue steels as a whole.


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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:44 pm
Posts: 33
Heat treat should not effect reactivity in any way.


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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:15 am
Posts: 3050
Location: Raleigh, NC
Then I guess it's magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Reactivity in white and blue paper steels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:46 am
Posts: 375
Location: Northern Illinois
I now want a magic knife


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