It is currently Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:34 am

All times are UTC



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 2 [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:17 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1215
Been researching a couple of knives and came across some comments on other forums I found a bit strange. More specifically, I've seen a lot bitching about exposed machi. Now, tradition aside, I look at this from a couple of perspectives:

1) Ergonomics. I've noticed on a number of Wa handled gyutos, that my fingers can feel scrunched up by the heel. In those circumstances, I would certainly prefer the handle to be set back a millimeter or two. That said, the design of the ferrule/handle itself can play a pretty important role in this feeling as well.

2) Balance. Unstabilized magnolia wood is pretty damn light. Bringing the center of balance back a bit by placing the handle a couple mm away from the neck could make some sense.

I guess, from a user's perspective, why would an exposed machi be unappealing? I don't have particularly beefy fingers and don't see how the handle placement further back would cause any kind of ergonomic issues. Indeed, on the balance front, I've actually ordered longer handles to draw the point back a bit in some circumstances.
There are likely many good answers and this is not an indictment so much as a question borne out of comments that I've seen deriding knives b/c the machi was exposed which I found odd. If there is a complaint I have about octagonal and D-shaped handles, it is the ferrule transition, but that seems to become less important for me the further back a traditional handle is which makes the complaints even stranger.



_________________
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:05 pm
Posts: 96
I think people who don't like the exposed machi usually cite two reasons: (1) it looks unfinished or like it was a mistake; and (2) food can get stuck there.

I believe the main reason why it is exposed traditionally is so that you have some extra metal to tap back into the handle if it becomes loose down the road.


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:40 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4064
Most of those complaints are about an exposed machi are aesthetics related more than anything. Most western users early on into the venture of J-knives do not understand the purpose of an exposed machi. To them it looks like the knife was improperly finished or the handle wasn't mounted properly or is flawed, thus the complaints. Those that continue the journey come to understand and learn to appreciate the exposed machi and some come to prefer it for it's tradition.



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:42 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1215
Interesting, thanks Josh/Jeff. Was familiar with the traditional purpose, and had read the same twaddle about aesthetics which struck me as completely idiotic. Hadn't seen the bit about food, but that seems even more silly

Edit: I'm not implying that there should or shouldn't be an exposed machi, just that disliking a knife for the presence of one seems a bit off unless there is some sort of tangible justification. I only bring it up as it was mentioned on numerous occasions about a Suisin Inox Honyaki (not the knife I was looking into, but the thread caught my eye). Seemed completely crazy in context.



_________________
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:05 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 584
Machi looks cool to me. :) I was kinda hoping that my Fujiyama would've been opened up a little more, but, no biggy.



_________________
http://nbthk-ab.org/index.htm
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:05 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:05 pm
Posts: 96
I think for most people who don't know why it is there, it just looks like someone forgot to tap it all the way in. So their knee jerk reaction is that it is poor quality or someone forgot to finish the job. But the belief is prevalent enough that I believe most knives for the Western market are ordered with the machi tapped all the way in since that is associated with better F&F.


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:08 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 584
Looks more traditional I think...



_________________
http://nbthk-ab.org/index.htm
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:57 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3685
Location: USA... mostly.
CHIP <> I've spoken about this & my disgust thereof ad nauseum, but as a little insight for you, CKTG has specifically requested from many of his suppliers that the machi be hidden in the Wa due to receiving overwhelming & repeated complaints from customers that they were poorly installed.

Leave it to the ignorant Americans to shiite in the punch bowl.



_________________
Embracing the silence amid a life and land full of static...
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
Posts: 312
Over the last 6 months I have bought a number of Konos blades from the " knives with out handle " section and have had a chance to play around with handles and handle placement. The first two larger blades , a 270 and 240 gyuto I had Tim Johnson make beautiful custom handles installed in the Western style with minimal machi exposed. Tim sent me a few larger Ho wood/Buffalo horn knocked off handles to play around with. I installed them them with about 1/4" of machi exposed and I like the extra space between the handle and blade. In addition to the extra finger room it slightly extends the over all length of the knife, especially on the shorter blade 170mm Nakiri ,Santuko and petty. It also allows you to customize the balance point. I just installed another handle in the same manner on a 240 Kiritsuke and I l am digging the little bit of extra length the exposed machi gives you. BB.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Exposed Machi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:23 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1215
Bill, your experience echos what I was thinking and why I am generally confused with some peoples' objections to exposed machi. To each their own I suppose.

Mel, I've read some of your comments about knives that you use and praise you have for the handle installation when done in a traditional manner which is another reason why I found it odd when I came across so many comments on other threads deriding the presence of an exposed machi. As I said, tradition aside, I see more advantages, as Bill explains, than disadvantages.



_________________
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred