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 Post subject: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:02 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 147
Location: Austin tX
Why don't knife makers who use this steel make it with out cladding.its stainless why not just make it a mono steel?


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:05 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 240
$$$$$$$


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:06 am 

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 am
Posts: 261
Location: Amstelveen, The Netherlands
The Hiromoto G3 is monosteel - good stuff by the way. Hard to believe there are no others.


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:22 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 147
Location: Austin tX
I just don't like the grind on the hiromoto.I don't understand the $$$$$$$ issue seems like more work to clad knife and such an insinificant amount of steel to use just to make a mono steel


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:34 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 240
it would be more like double the amount of more expensive steel,
lots of times makers buy the steel pre laminated so no not more work that way, also often the cladding is used for strength,,, thin hard core, tough cladding.
I get why you are frustrated there, all these knives and no one seems to make the one you want! MARK u listening? time for a G - 3 line and honyakis!


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:37 am 

Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 7:05 pm
Posts: 31
A clad knife should be easier to sharpen since there is less of the really hard steel to be ground away by the stone.


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:11 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1288
Taz just addressed this issue in a thread Mark started regarding customer requests. I don't want to try to regurgitate it because I do not know it all, but $ was the short answer. Trying to find the thread, but my searches are coming up empty...sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:15 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1288
Taz, pertained to carbon monosteel knives. Copied from here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4960&hilit=monosteel. Maybe this is helpful


Most Honyaki's are forged out from a single piece of steel, heat treated with the clay coating to make the Hamon, and then finish ground, polished, sharpened, etc. The Rockwell hardness is usually higher than non honyaki mono steel knives. Honyaki are usually refered to as mizu honyaki by some to show that they were quenched in water instead of the normal oil for carbon steels. The Water quench is MUCH more violent, breaks knives more, but leaves a higher hardness. The Takagi Honyaki's I haven't handled, only read the descriptions, but they are left in the Kurouchi finish, which saves a LOT of hard work and hand labor; they are forged to shape closer to the finished product. Polishing harder steel takes much longer than polishing the same steel that is softer. Many Honyaki's have the mirror finish, which adds time and expense.

The mono steel carbon blades that you reference are often blanked out of plate steel, or rough forged and then cut out for the profile instead of being forged to shape. They are more machine ground, so less time/effort/hands on work to do, so they are much less expensive. They still use 1 piece of carbon steel, but are more machine made than hand made, utilize a different heat treating cycle that is much safer for the steel and aren't as hard. So they are easier to clean up and finish. So both are still mono carbon steel, but one was forged more instead of being blanked out and the heat treating cycle is harder and more violent and breakage prone on the Honyaki; someone said 1 in 3 Honyaki blades survive the heat treating process IIRC from a few years ago.

Is is easier to heat treat and work knives that are clad with a carbon core; the cladding is softer and easier/quicker to grind/finish and you still get the benefits of nice carbon core edge holding and the easier working of the softer steel. Many places buy their steel pre laminated from the mill and have to stamp/laser cut out the blades, HT and grind them down instead of forging them out one at a time, forging the bevels and tapers in, coating with clay, hardening, hoping they survive and then working steel in the 64-65 rockwell range vs steel in the 59-61 range. Cladding a knife blade cuts down on the cost since the white and blue steels are more expensive; they need about 1/3 as much in a cladded blade as they do a mono blade. Would love to see Kono make a blue #1 or #2 mono Wa handled knife like their white #2 laser series!

When you look at it, most mono steel carbon knives are usually in the laser category and are the stamped out/machine made variety or Honyaki. The clad carbon blades are the ones with more character to them, a little more heft and usually more convexing, and also the Kurouchi finishes, which cut down on expense as well.


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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 2714
Ease of manufacturing, I reckon, holds a part in this too. Easier to grind/polish/finish soft stainless than hardened stainless.

19C27, as I recall, is very similar to Ginsanko.....so the Suisin Inox Honyaki knives are solid versions....albeit quite expensive. :)



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 Post subject: Re: No Mono steel Ginsanko Steel (Silver 3)?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:18 am
Posts: 50
I can see why it would be easier for the knifemaker to grind a clad blade, but I'm not so sure about the "ease of sharpening" claim. I personally have almost never reached the cladding when I've sharpened clad blades. I might sharpen 2-3 mm up the side of the blade, while the cladding is 4-5 mm above the edge.

Might make a difference if I were trying to thin a blade on a belt grinder, but that's above my pay grade.


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