It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:16 pm

All times are UTC



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 2 [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:56 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:21 am
Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, NY
Been through a number of posts and keep running across references to "tooth". E.g., " ..... using a 2K stone it has plenty of tooth without sacraficing refinement. "

In this context what does "tooth" mean?



_________________
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:16 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 619
Tooth refers to the ability of an edge to "bite" into products when cutting. Tomatoes are a common ingredient to measure "toothiness" in an edge. Dull knives smash tomatoes, super sharp knives can have a tendency to slide over the skin of a tomato rather than actually grab it and perforate. Knives or razors at very high grades of refinement can sometimes seem "too sharp" for certain things or, in other words, the edge is too fine and would benefit from having more aggressive "teeth."

If you think of the edge of knife in a literal sense, it is not a single entity, it is made up of thousands of these microscopic "teeth"; The alignment of the teeth often determines the effectiveness of the edge, when these teeth roll over to one side or the other, cutting performance is affected in a negative fashion. Using a steel or a strop will gently push this teeth back into accord with one another and restore function to the knife. Often the rate of "tooth decay" (lol, had to) is determined by the refinement of the edge, where generally speaking, higher refinement at more acute angles is reduced in efficiency more quickly. Eventually, the teeth wear away and no amount of steeling will revive them; at this point a new edge must be ground on the bevel. Factors like heat treatment and steel composition along with "micro bevels" come into play as your sharpening technique becomes more advanced.



_________________
Only after Winter comes do we know that the pine and the cypress are the last to fade.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:33 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:21 am
Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, NY
:!: Got it. Starting to make sense :!:

So I have a Goko I recently acquired that had a very nicely done edge by the previous owner. Used it for about a week, light, home stuff 3 or 4 times. Saturday AM I stropped it with 1 micron diamond past and spent a lot of time on some horse butt.

Seemed to me I might have lost something when I was slicing tomatoes and peppers later. Possible I overdid it with the stropping?



_________________
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3307
Possibly, when stropping a knife to refresh the edge it only take a few strokes per side.



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:54 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1276
It is possible, but it seems unlikely to me that your stropping polished up the edge too much. Assuming there was a 2-5k edge on the knife to begin with, your 1µ loaded strop is a ~15k stone. That jump is sizable and it would likely take some time to wear enough of the "teeth" off to loose too much effectiveness.

Now it is possible your angle was too obtuse and you basically put on a micro bevel, in that case you would need something like a ceramic rod or waterstone to basically "tooth" the edge up again.

It is possible that the edge had a burr on it, a flake of steel from the sharpening process that was not completely removed. Often leftover burr will feel sharp initially but will break off or roll over quickly degrading the edge in the process. You can try lightly drawing the edge through a cork, this will rip off any burr (not ideal but it will help identify the problem) then stop again on your loaded strop.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 619
Robstreperous wrote::!: Got it. Starting to make sense :!:

So I have a Goko I recently acquired that had a very nicely done edge by the previous owner. Used it for about a week, light, home stuff 3 or 4 times. Saturday AM I stropped it with 1 micron diamond past and spent a lot of time on some horse butt.

Seemed to me I might have lost something when I was slicing tomatoes and peppers later. Possible I overdid it with the stropping?




DAT WAZ MAI GOKO BUDDY! haha. Go a little less on the strop next time and that could bring back a bit of that bite. I don't think I left a burr on it, but anything is possible, I am human after all. I stropped it up to about 12K when it was last sharpened, if I remember correctly.



_________________
Only after Winter comes do we know that the pine and the cypress are the last to fade.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:52 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:21 am
Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, NY
Hmm.... I'll say this. Other than the initial "bite" on the tomatoes and peppers it cuts great. Think I'll give it some more work and hit it with the Idahone. Thanks for the advice guys.

It's possible I may have been too obtuse with my angle.

And thanks for the answer about "tooth" Dan. Makes sense to me now.



_________________
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:07 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 626
Rob, asked a similar question not too long ago when I first started sharpening. I noticed that an 8k edge on a certain knife/steel felt a bit too refined (read lacked teeth), yet a 4K wasn't quite refined enough. Got some great recommendations from the sharpening sub-forum about the various ways to maintain a more aggressive character while adding a bit of refinement to an edge. I'd recommend reposting this over there


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 312
Location: Philly
Question was the 1 micron diamond paste on the horse butt strop? Or was it one strop with 1 micron and an unloaded horse butt strop?

And unloaded strop basically any angle that is equal to or lower than your sharpening angle is fine and you just barely want the weight of the knife and you will almost never refine it or roll the edge over.

Now with loaded strop you can refine to much. Depending on how many strops you take it to and how many microns your progress on.

But what could have happened with the 1 micron loaded strop is a slightly rolled edge or like previous posts and out of whack micro bevel. Remember loaded strops not only polish but cut and if you put a lot of pressure the edge can roll and you will have to hit the stones. Or if you spent like 20 minutes stropping on 1 micron strop it could have undesirable results depending on technique.

Curious can you slice phone book or magazine or newsprint paper effortlessly, still? If so can you also push cut paper media?

If the answer is no to both slicing and no to push cutting I think you need to hit the stones again.



_________________
There's an old Italian saying, don't burn your tongue on another man's soup.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does "tooth" mean?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:11 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3333
Location: USA... mostly.
This is the edge of a knife's edge under the scope. The scratches left in the steel from the abrasive leave grooves which leave "teeth" at the edge of the edge. How far you refine those teeth down is dependent upon how fine an abrasive you use.

Image





_________________
Embracing the silence amid a life and land full of static...
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred