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 Post subject: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:55 am 

Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 38
Hi guys, new to the forum and the "world of knives".
After a few stainless knives (Miyabi, Zwilling, Wusthoff etc), i decided to take my chances with a carbon steel. Moritaka 240 mm gyuto.

The knife is wonderfull but i have a few questions: after seriously using it for 1st time yesterday (onions, tomatoes, meat etc), i noticed some small darker spots close to the edge. Also the kurouchi finish towards the edge started fading out.
Note that i VERY carefully treated the knife during prep work by cleaning it an drying it evey 5 mins.

I will try to post some pics but as i said i am new to the game.

Is all this normal or i shoul be worried?

Thanks for any help


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:25 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:06 pm
Posts: 435
Sounds very normal. I don't know Moritakas reputation for reactivity, but generally on carbon knives if you're cutting any meat, or any produce that is remotely acidic, you start seeing patina develop very quickly. More quickly than 5 minutes.

Dark spots are ok as long as they aren't orange/brown. Because there's another name for orange/brown patina: rust.


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:33 am 

Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 38
Thanks for the reply Luca. I am trying to post a pic but keeps telling me that it is to big even though i downsized it to 15K


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:32 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 3929
Try posting it to a photosharing site like photobucket. They have hyperlinks that will embed larger photos into forum posts.

Alternatively, you can downsize photos using most photo viewing software but it becomes harder to get a good look at something like patina.

That said, I agree with Luca. This sounds like normal patina and KU wear. For many of us this is part of the allure of more rustic knives. With use, they evolve into something uniquely our own.


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:01 am 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
It's usual to get patina on the edge. Ideally you want that to develop over the entire exposed edge. Then it won't be quite as reactive. As Luca said, you don't want orange rust but black patina is good.



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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:06 am 

Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 38
Thank you all for the help.

It looks grey not orange or red.
I tried again put some photo links with dropbox but no success. Dropbox does not give an option to post the link here. I even tried copy paste the link but nothing.

Anyway thank you all


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:53 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:56 pm
Posts: 1062
Location: Geneva, Ohio
bere1821 wrote:...after seriously using it for 1st time yesterday (onions, tomatoes, meat etc), i noticed some small darker spots close to the edge.
--
That sounds completely normal, and consistent with the three Moritaka I own/have owned.
New, the steel tends to be very reactive, as most carbon knives are. The more you use it the better, or less reactive it will become.
Cook up a few chicken breast and slicing them as thinly as possible immediately after taking them from the oven. Use the entire length of the blade. This works the best on my Moritakas' to some what force a patina (a natural patina though!).

bere1821 wrote:Also the kurouchi finish towards the edge started fading out.
Note that i VERY carefully treated the knife during prep work by cleaning it an drying it evey 5 mins.
.--
My first Moritaka was a 170 Santoku, and the KU finish looked great, until I used an acetone rag on the blade to remove any varnish; the KU came almost entirely. My 210 Gytuo hung on to the KU a bit longer, but started wearing off when I used a soft bristled brush to clean it. It looked like a Leper, so I removed the rest and used Ferric Chloride to etch the blade, above the blade road.
So, it's fairly safe to say that at some point in the your lifetime, or the knives... it's going to look spotty, or barren of the ku finish.
Moritaka offers a finish on their knives called Migaki - polished iron clad. I may try that soon on my 210.

bere1821 wrote:Is all this normal or i shoul be worried?
--
It all sounds very normal.
The steel(s) will react differently with different ingredients. Potatoes turn my 20 a funky grey. Hot chicken comes out dark blue/purple.
The more the patina forms the less reactive it seems to be. They do remain a rather reactive knife though, compared to others I've used.

bere1821 wrote:Note that i VERY carefully treated the knife during prep work by cleaning it an drying it evey 5 mins.
--
If I may.. don't look at in terms of minutes, Look at it as "just used" or "dried".
If you cut something and have the mind set that you have X amount of time; you'll get that brown patina Luca mentioned.
If you become diligent in wiping, before setting it down to do other things, you will have far less issues.

It's also a good idea to use a micro-fiber towel for the final drying.
If you're leaving it for a while consider applying oil to it. Especially if you are coastal ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:06 pm 

Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 38
Thank you GopherBroke for taking the time to answer one by one. I will follow your instructions and i will accept living with the patina which i think i will like after all.

I live in Qatar. Average humidity around 99.99%....:)

So....


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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 973
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Humidity can make things very difficult. You should consider giving the knife a wash every week or so for a month with Bar Keepers Friend or a similar product if you notice the color during more orange/brown IN BETWEEN cooking sessions. I wouldn't normally advocate this, but if you really do have issues with a humid climate, BKF not only cleans off the old patina/rust, but also usually mellows the steel so that the next patina is more durable and less reactive or prone to turning in humidity.

Just to be clear, this isn't quite the same as serious rust issues, but it leads toward it. This is why I advocate the wash above rather than just letting a patina set in on its own. After you do the wash a couple times, the resulting patina will be more durable and you won't have to worry about it turning on its own.

Focus on the exposed parts and avoid the KU finish with the BKF. And don't overdo it—this is just a suggestion to try if/when you see problems and want something more preventative to try. No reason to overdue it. This is all meant to complement the advice above, which is all good: your current case is normal and letting a normal patina set in should do the trick unless you have serious humidity issues.



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 Post subject: Re: Moitaka Gyuto 240mm questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 972
My go to test for "good vs bad" is wiping the knife with a dry paper towel. If there is nothing on the towel, good; however, if you start getting orange or brownish yellow on the towel, you have yourself some rust. I'm a fan of forcing patina to curb the reactivity by letting some diluted mustard sit on the blade for twenty minutes or so before washing it completely off. The knife will discolor, but if it passes the towel test, you're in the clear. Another strategy that may help is regularly cleaning the blade with baking soda and water, rubbing it in with a wine cork to help ease the reactivity. The "traditional method" would be to regularly polish away the patina with sharpening stones (or fine sandpaper) which can be a tedious process that some people find very enjoyable; others simply don't have the time for it. Barkeepers friend might be the best suggestion if these strategies don't work.


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