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 Post subject: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:57 pm
Posts: 1
Hey everyone,

I just ordered my edge pro essentials kit with shapton glass stones(500, 1k, 4k) and an additional 8k shapton glass stone. I'm debating whether to order an 16k stone in addition but wondering if it may be overkill? I've got some konosukes and some VG10 Kramer/Shuns which will be the primary knives I'm sharpening.

Thanks for your opinions!


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 1434
For most purposes the Shapton 16K is overkill. I'd probably opt for a EP strop or two before the 16K stone. The Nanocloth EP strop works great and is a perfect match for a 1 micron (about 16K grit equivalent) diamond spray. You could easily go from the Shapton 4K or 8K to a strop loaded with a 1 micron compound.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Posts: 2619
If actually planing to use the knife 16k is way overkill. If a hobbiest looking for the perfect mirror polish your going to go a lot farther than that.



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 353
I considered a 16K but instead went for glass blanks with various grits of 3M diamond lapping film, down to 0.1u. And even then only for very special knives. Even the 8K is seen by many as overkill.

Depends on how you use the knife really. Pro kitchen? Stop at 8K or lower. Impressing yourself and your drunken friends with some late night gyuto shaving? The sky's the limit.

Cheers,

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Id be adding the 2k to that list before thr 16k. Theres no reason you cant get the 16k though. I prefer to go as far as i can on stones before switching out to strops.

But i consider a 30k to be more mid grit so what do i know....



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:30 pm 

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 pm
Posts: 63
i have the hole set from 220- 16K

I stop kitchen knives at 2k

I stop most other knives at 4K

i stop knives that need bite at 320 or 500

my pocket knives I go 16K + .5 micron strop

if you want the polished edge that bites do a 16K then up the angle about 3 degrees and knock it down with a 1-2 K for some teeth or a 320 or 500 if you really want some bite

I have ran across a couple times where even though my pocket knife is extremely sharp, it acts dual (like bread and some fruit and veggies)..... one guy laughed and me grabbed my knife from me, ran his finger across it to so me how dual it was and promptly left for the ER for stitches..... threatening to sue me, until i pointed out that he technically stole my knife from me...... dumb ass. :lol:

after the 500 you must use LOTS of water or it will scratch !!


I did the 1k - 8k -16k jump and it just didn't work that well the 8K would load up really bad, so i got the 2k and 4k and it was much better. you can probly skip the 6k as i usally only need a couple passes before moving to 8k



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:18 am 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 183
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
I've been using an EP for over 3 years now. It has done a great job since I got it. However like almost any tool once I got really familiar with it I am now getting edges SHARPER using stones that I used to need strops for. The key is developing the super light touch just like when free hand sharpening. I had been told to use a VERY light touch but those words don't take on a real meaning until you "feel" it as you stroke the edge. So, for now the 16k probably won't be any good to you and I'd agree with another to get a strop or two. If you are going for a mirror polish on the bevel stay away from all balsa strops (on the bevel). Use leather or if you really want a great EP strop the kangaroo is in a league all by itself IMO. No matter how low a grit I use (stone or strop) a bare roo strop refines it even more. Keep in mind though the edge needs to be super sharp before the roo will be of much good. FOr now, stop at 8k and strop. As your touch or feel and comfort using the EP improves you will find less need for strops because the edges are getting sharper and sharper using only stones. Someone said several months ago that it is possible to get edges just as sharp using only stones as you can by also using strops. To prove him wrong I stopped stropping and tried to improve my use of stones (EP and free hand both). After about 5 or 6 months I proved HIM RIGHT. :) With the proper touch my edges were sharper than ever and this was with no stropping. But, and this is good, since the edges were alreadcy SHARPER the strops refined them even more. So, in the future you will benefit from the 16k Shapton glass (which I have). I hope this is making sense. Now? No 16k. Later? Yes, 16k if you want one. :)

Jack
PS
About the balsa strops. They are great for the edge apex. I used one with .25 micron or something really low on a mirror finished bevel and it scratched it all up. It seems the balsa wood was coarse enough on it's own that it negated using any super high grit abrasive. I didn't test different grits but i'd guess anything under 1 micron may be wasted on balsa. Use leather, roo, etc. I ruined one bevel and that's all I know. So any additional info on balsa strops would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:12 pm 

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 pm
Posts: 63
jackknifeh wrote:I've been using an EP for over 3 years now. It has done a great job since I got it. However like almost any tool once I got really familiar with it I am now getting edges SHARPER using stones that I used to need strops for. The key is developing the super light touch just like when free hand sharpening. I had been told to use a VERY light touch but those words don't take on a real meaning until you "feel" it as you stroke the edge. So, for now the 16k probably won't be any good to you and I'd agree with another to get a strop or two. If you are going for a mirror polish on the bevel stay away from all balsa strops (on the bevel). Use leather or if you really want a great EP strop the kangaroo is in a league all by itself IMO. No matter how low a grit I use (stone or strop) a bare roo strop refines it even more. Keep in mind though the edge needs to be super sharp before the roo will be of much good. FOr now, stop at 8k and strop. As your touch or feel and comfort using the EP improves you will find less need for strops because the edges are getting sharper and sharper using only stones. Someone said several months ago that it is possible to get edges just as sharp using only stones as you can by also using strops. To prove him wrong I stopped stropping and tried to improve my use of stones (EP and free hand both). After about 5 or 6 months I proved HIM RIGHT. :) With the proper touch my edges were sharper than ever and this was with no stropping. But, and this is good, since the edges were alreadcy SHARPER the strops refined them even more. So, in the future you will benefit from the 16k Shapton glass (which I have). I hope this is making sense. Now? No 16k. Later? Yes, 16k if you want one. :)

Jack
PS
About the balsa strops. They are great for the edge apex. I used one with .25 micron or something really low on a mirror finished bevel and it scratched it all up. It seems the balsa wood was coarse enough on it's own that it negated using any super high grit abrasive. I didn't test different grits but i'd guess anything under 1 micron may be wasted on balsa. Use leather, roo, etc. I ruined one bevel and that's all I know. So any additional info on balsa strops would be great.



yes any stone + 4k I dont even push down, just the wait of the stone and its holder I just push with my thumb, I found pushing down causes a burr that you can never get rid of !!!



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton glass 16k
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:46 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 183
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
turbo v6 camaro wrote:
jackknifeh wrote:I've been using an EP for over 3 years now. It has done a great job since I got it. However like almost any tool once I got really familiar with it I am now getting edges SHARPER using stones that I used to need strops for. The key is developing the super light touch just like when free hand sharpening. I had been told to use a VERY light touch but those words don't take on a real meaning until you "feel" it as you stroke the edge. So, for now the 16k probably won't be any good to you and I'd agree with another to get a strop or two. If you are going for a mirror polish on the bevel stay away from all balsa strops (on the bevel). Use leather or if you really want a great EP strop the kangaroo is in a league all by itself IMO. No matter how low a grit I use (stone or strop) a bare roo strop refines it even more. Keep in mind though the edge needs to be super sharp before the roo will be of much good. FOr now, stop at 8k and strop. As your touch or feel and comfort using the EP improves you will find less need for strops because the edges are getting sharper and sharper using only stones. Someone said several months ago that it is possible to get edges just as sharp using only stones as you can by also using strops. To prove him wrong I stopped stropping and tried to improve my use of stones (EP and free hand both). After about 5 or 6 months I proved HIM RIGHT. :) With the proper touch my edges were sharper than ever and this was with no stropping. But, and this is good, since the edges were alreadcy SHARPER the strops refined them even more. So, in the future you will benefit from the 16k Shapton glass (which I have). I hope this is making sense. Now? No 16k. Later? Yes, 16k if you want one. :)

Jack
PS
About the balsa strops. They are great for the edge apex. I used one with .25 micron or something really low on a mirror finished bevel and it scratched it all up. It seems the balsa wood was coarse enough on it's own that it negated using any super high grit abrasive. I didn't test different grits but i'd guess anything under 1 micron may be wasted on balsa. Use leather, roo, etc. I ruined one bevel and that's all I know. So any additional info on balsa strops would be great.



yes any stone + 4k I dont even push down, just the wait of the stone and its holder I just push with my thumb, I found pushing down causes a burr that you can never get rid of !!!


What I do to reduce the weight of the stone as much as possible for final touches, burr removal, etc. is to only use 1" long strokes using just the end of the stone closest to the handle. When the stone is all the way out (closer to you) there is more weight on the edge. This makes just a little bit of difference but sometimes it makes a difference on those hard to get rid of burrs. Also, trying to use a tiny bit of lifting on the handle to reduce the pressure of the stone on the edge is possible. It "feels" like I am doing this but how much difference it actually makes, I don't know. Maybe none and it's my imagination. I did find after a lot of use and paying very close attention you can develope a "feel" of the stone on the edge that is normally talked about when free hand sharpening. This "feel" can't be talked about or even explained. Not by me anyway. It just seems to happen at some point after lots of use or practice. Then again, I may be full of it. :)

Jack


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