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 Post subject: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7361
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark et al. - I wanted to start by saying "thank you" for your forum, I have learned a huge amount from it and from the videos you have published. I picked up an edge pro "full Monty" set from you this summer and I have a couple questions regarding it that I haven't found answers on the forum.
1st - shapton glass 2000. I have read quite a few recommendations on the forum regarding using the 2k stone in a progression. I have had some problems jumping 1k - 4k. The 4k glazes very quickly with my use, and seems to take a while to remove the 1k scratches. I figured there was a reason for not including the 2k, so thought I would ask. Also, is there a way to avoid/fix the 4k glazing?

2nd - flattening - I am growing tired of flattening my stones on wet/dry sandpaper. I noticed the $30 140 grit diamond flattening stone on your site. I know it's not completely flat, but does that make an appreciable difference? I would love the large atoma 140 plate someday, but I am planning on getting the atoma 140 1" x 6" ep plate and a cheaper flattening plate. In your opinion, would this noticeably affect my results? If so, is it possible to flatten 1x6 shapton gs on the 1x6 atoma?
3 - assuming the flattening plate is ok to use, I have a $100 visa gift card. My total right now is 104.95, is there a way to enter two payment sources on the website? I didn't see a way.

Thanks for any help you can offer, and thanks again for all the learning resources.

- Matt



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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7361
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Matt,

You're very welcome. :) The forum has been an awesome addition to our site. Best thing I ever did for customer service.

Ok,

1. Yes the 2k will speed your work a little and allow you to not use the 4k quite so much.

2. Yes the 140 plate is totally fine for flattening your edge pro stones.

3. There is no way for our cart to accept 2 payment methods on a single order. We have people ask this from time to time and I apologize that we can't do it.



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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 633
I wish online carts would allow for multiple payment types as well. It gets to be a pain when you have a buildup of gift cards and can't use them to make one larger purchase. Or you make a single purchase and have that $1 or $2 left over. lol

I know it isn't any fault of Mark's or any particular retailer, just a small annoyance with how online carts usually work. ;)

It would be awesome if there was an easy way to combine the amounts into one account so that wouldn't be an issue anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:57 am 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 187
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
I have an Edge Pro also and the Shapton glass stones. They will dish in the center but how much effect does that have on performance. Or is the only reason to lap them is for "cleaning" them?

About flattening bench stones and the importance of "perfectly flat". I have the $30 140 grit stone and have been completely happy with it. THen you have the shapton glass flattening plate for $370 or something close. What would be the reason to get the Shapton? Would it last 12 times as long or longer? Is the perfection of the flatness an issue? Ken explained it to me a while back and I think I "got" what he explained but now I don't remember. Maybe I didn't "get" it after all. If a TINY bit of flatness imperfection is so important how does that relate to any imperfection of the person doing the sharpening? I can get FLAT bevels on an edge using the EP and everyone I've talked to or read what they post agrees that that flatness is impossible when free hand sharpening. Someone told me that a person skilled at free hand sharpening doesn't keep the edge angle any more consistant than 1 degree. How close to a given angle can skilled free hand sharpeners keep the edge over the coarse of 10 strokes? I ask because if the human isn't perfect how important is it for the stone to be perfectly flat. I think I just answered my own question. If the stone isn't flat therefore creating different angles depending on where the edge touches it that would only amplify any imperfection of the person's ability. Is that it or is there more to the flatness issue? I understand that when I'm sharpening my 10" plain edge straight edge bread knife if the stone is dished there won't be as much of the edge contacting stone as ir it were flat. But, any edge with even a slight curve including the belly would still make contact when the stone is dished.

I've heard so much about keeping my stones flat and have been doing it. Now I'd like to know more about WHY I AM RINSING STONE I PAID FOR DOWN THE DRAIN? :) I'm assuming it's not a rumor started by sonte manufacturers. :D

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:16 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 633
I don't think a stone has to be perfectly 100% flat, but if there is enough dishing the ends of the stone can affect the final degree of bevel on the knife. If you hold the knife at a consistent angle and start on the side nearest you the stone is likely to hit behind the edge you are trying to sharpen. When you get to the middle your knife is at the correct angle you are holding it at. When you get to the end the angle will be shallower than the intended angle. This can lead to a pretty severe convexing of the primary cutting edge, making it more round than it should be. I personally don't think a very shallow dishing would make a big difference, but if it gets too bad it will be harder to get the knife as sharp as you'd like it. Now if you can hold the blade at the same angle relative to the stone at all times throughout the dish, then you are a far better man than I. ;) lol

I have seen in Murray Carter's vids where he talks about using the high points that develop on the ends for sharpening as well to wear them down so he doesn't waste the stone by flattening. Maybe you could try that as well. Dunno how well it works, but it seems to do the job for him just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:43 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Guys:

Flattening your stones contributes towards your skill development in achieving consistency with scary sharp edges.

I reckon it would be rather difficult to improve your skills when the tools are not functioning optimally.

If you keep your stones flat, the skill acquisition and result chart skyrockets in a small space of time.

I flatten my stones after each knife - then If the desired outcome is not achieved, at least I can rule out a dished stone & look elsewhere for my mistake...

Just my thoughts & way of approaching it.

...and yes....every time I lap my stones the thought of washing $$'s down the drain does cross my mind....part of life I guess.

Regards

Rookie.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:50 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 174
Matt;
As to your glazing question...
The Shapton GS's are splash and go stones- you don't have to soak them for 5-10 minutes- but you need to give them a spritz of
water as you go. Depending how long the knife is , I'll give a spritz to start then give a 210mm a spritz and wipe after going from toe to heel to toe using light pressure.
You might give that a try....works for me & I've never glazed a stone.

Best of luck & enjoy the new tpy.

Douglas


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:51 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 174
+1 on MR
HUGE difference if your stones are flat.

Douglas


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:50 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:50 am
Posts: 4
I sent this question to Mark. I appreciate all the input! I'm still not clear on a couple points. I am not questioning flattening my stones, merely how to do it best (on a budget).

Would the cheaper 140 diamond plate on the site negatively affect my results? I get its not perfectly flat, but I'm not clear how much that would translate to my end result.
And, can I use a 1x6 140 atoma plate to level my 1x6 shaptons?

Sharp Knives - thanks for the feedback. I do liberally spray my stones every pass, and have tried increasing the frequency of spraying on the 4k, with the same result, it will glaze up quickly. A couple passes with wet/dry sandpaper fixes the issue. This is the only stone that this happens to me with, the 500, 1k and 8k "load" normally.

Thanks for any help you can give.


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 Post subject: Re: Edge pro questions
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:08 am 

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 131
Larger the plate, the easier it is get the stone flattened...to me the 2x6 DMT plate does everything I ever want to do. But it is nice to have the narrower Atoma for some knives..I would flatten on the same size plate as my stone imho.


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