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 Post subject: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
I would like to share a new process for setting angles on my Edge Pro that have made a huge difference.

First, Problem #1:
Stones, new or older, or other sharpening media have different thicknesses.
That can be seen in this picture where the thickness range from .136 inch for a 125 micron Diamond Microfinishing Film mounted on an EP plate to .421 for a Ozuku Asagi stone on an EP plate.

Image

This causes changes in the sharpening angle, even if very slight for stones of similar but not exactly the same width. This increases the effort of sharpening, since each stone has to work more to create an almost completely new bevel with a slightly changed angle. That means lots of increase in work time, loss of knife steel and reduced stone life.

Second, Problem #2
Establishing exact angle at follow up sharpening as used in prior sharpenings.

Hopefully, any serious sharpener keeps a diary of the knives that he has sharpened that he may be sharpening again in which he records the purpose of the knife, number of bevels, angle of the bevels and the grit used on each bevel.

Image

But, with the original Edge Pro system the normal way of measuring would be trying to eyeball up and tighten the bar at or near one of colored angle markings, like in this picture. In this case, my diary said that the angle for a given grit was set just at the bottom of the red marker. So, I would try to estimate the last setting like this:

Image


Last edited by Raymond on Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
The current best Solution to these two problems was the introduction of the collar.

Image

The introduction of the collar made a huge difference in dealing with stones of varying width. Using the Collar reduces the angle error, reduces sharpening time and makes it substantially easier to produce great edges. By placing the stone on top of the collar and firmly setting the arm right on top of the stone and tightening at that point, precision between stones was achieved.........

Image

at least during one sharpening session. But, using the collar still leaves the problem of saving and resetting the collar at the exact place for next session.

The difficulty in getting the exact collar setting from prior sharpenings caused slight differences. Those slight differences in angle were enough that they so annoying so that I found that I was inclined to just leave the collar at only one setting and sharpen as many knives as possible with the same angle.


Last edited by Raymond on Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
That is how I discovered this simple process. The use of Washers as spacers to re-establish the prior angle quickly and precisely.

In this picture, there is a single thick nylon washer in place:

Image

In this picture, I am using two nylon washers. The washers can be any material but wide is better for stability. The stone or other flattening medium is placed directly on top of the washer, and the arm lowered into firm contact and tightened. like this:

Image

The angle that is achieved is a very precise duplicate of prior settings.

here is a test example that I did two days ago for this thread:

Several months ago, I purchased a Spyderco Stretch in ZDP-189. (Was waiting for a replacement Manix2 S110V which was on back order and got restless.) I decided to leave it as a daily user so settled on re-profiling it with only one bevel, and go 1000 EP grit. It was getting dull and needed to be touched up. Using the new system, here is what I did:

(next post)


Last edited by Raymond on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
First, I decided that the Spyderco Stretch only needed a touch-up re-sharpening . I only wanted to touch up the existing edge, not re-profile it. So, first, I opened my sharpening diary, looked up the page with the Stretch and saw that previously I had finished with the 1,000 EP grit on a single bevel with no micro bevel. The previous angle was set at 2 nylon washers and the collar. (Loose, the collar basically functions as a washer.)

Here is the set up which was very quick:

Image

The Stretch was placed in precisely the same location as previously: handle snug against the side, blade flat on the ricasso, back and front edge at the exact edge of the sharpening platform like this:

Image

From the side, the final setup looks like this:

Image

The very slight gap between the stone and bevel is because the blade is curved. The stone sits at exactly the same angle as when this knife was first sharpened.

I then used only one very light edge leading stroke of the 1000 into the ZDP blade on each side. No stropping or other sharpening at all.
Here is the result:

Image

Yes, hair shaving sharp again. I like to direct the blade at only one hair at a time to determine exact performance, rather than simply skimming a lot. Keep this in mind: this is only with 1000 grit, and I wanted this knife to be left course to mainly be a good slicer.

Conclusion: This Washer system, at least in this case, allowed for: Fast and Precise angle Setup, Minimal wasted time, Minimal used stone and steel life, and Excellent Sharpening Results.

Other notes. I have been using this system for about 6 months. It really works, especially with very tough steels like S110V and K390 which have the ability to take a very keen edge, and require lots of stoning effort to remove even a little steel.

Hope this is helpful to others.

Best!

Raymond


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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 131
Nice post! I might try this.


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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:03 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 851
Thank you Raymond!!!

I encouraged Ray to post this and am thankful he took the time and effort. Building on Mad Rookie's stop collar trick, Ray has noodled out an ad hoc indexing system for those not inclined to diddle with an Angle Cube. The EP community needs thinking like this in order to continually build upon our existing bag of tricks. Similarly, we need some critical eyes cast upon this in the name of peer review and ask Ray to defend his methods where questioned.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go establish a long position in washer futures.

Cheers,

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:53 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:52 am
Posts: 138
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Great work thinking out of the box Raymond. Off to get a selection of washers sometime soon!!! Thanks for sharing.



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Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:42 am
Posts: 26
Hello Ray, thanks for all the hard work. I know that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. However what if you want to go thru a progression of stones? I am not trying to rain on your parade. I am just trying to understand your process. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
Radar53 wrote:Great work thinking out of the box Raymond. Off to get a selection of washers sometime soon!!! Thanks for sharing.


Thank you Grant, Otaku, and Rick.


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 Post subject: Re: Improved Process for consistant Edge Pro Angle set
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 31
rutcrazed wrote:Hello Ray, thanks for all the hard work. I know that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. However what if you want to go thru a progression of stones? I am not trying to rain on your parade. I am just trying to understand your process. Thanks


Hi, Good Question. The answer is simple: When using the next stone, loosen the arm nut, place the new stone on top of the washers, lower the arm and tighten, then put the new stone into the stone holder and use it. Continue to do this with each progressive stone.

This shows that this Washer system is not only great for quick and precise set up of prior settings, it also allows quick and easy adjustments to precisely account for the inevitable difference in thickness between stones during each sharpening session.

Ray


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