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 Post subject: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:45 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 6
Hello,

I own a EP Apex with stock stones and have recently purchased a 270mm Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto. I've read there that using anything coarser than a 5k stone is a bad idea.

So I guess it means that the 1000k stock EP stone is barely up to the task, but I'd like to know if anybody has used the stock stones with that blade, and what results they had.

Thanks,

Nick.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 625
Location: Philippines
not necessarily bad, more like useless, unecessary.

=D

but this is when it comes to synthetic sharpening stones. using natural stones give you a different kind of edge even on high grit.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:52 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Nick,

I own three Suisin Inox Honyakis, a 270 wa-gyuto, a 240 wa-sujihiki, and a 180 wa-petty. I also have an Edge Pro, although it has been many months since I have used it, as I freehand sharpen nowadays.

The article you referenced is one person's opinion, and not anywhere near mine. Please don't take it as definitive of how to sharpen your knife, because it is not. I would suggest that you disregard everything in the article that pertains to sharpening, especially the notion that nothing lower than a 5k stone is appropriate for your Suisin. There is nothing "special" about the steel that made it "crumble" after using a Beston 500 - the edge problem was strictly the fault of the sharpener.

The most important thing to keep in mind when sharpening is to remove as little metal as necessary. Too many people seem to think that every sharpening session has to start with a coarse stone and move through a progression of stones. Following this prescription blindly will dramatically decrease the life of your knife. Choose to start with a grit appropriate to the task. If the knife has a chip in the edge that needs to be taken out, or if you are sharpening an extremely dull knife, or if you are thinning the blade then the coarse stone may be the best starting point. In most cases, a medium grit is more appropriate. On a knife like the Suisin it will likely be several months before you need to use a coarse stone, unless you need to repair it. I would go so far as to suggest that you try the EP polishing tapes for touching up your Suisin before you use any stone on it.

As far as the stock EP 1000 stone, please note that it is the equivalent of a 2000-3000 grit Japanese waterstone. For a gyuto, this is probably as high as you need to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Rick wrote:Nick,

I own three Suisin Inox Honyakis, a 270 wa-gyuto, a 240 wa-sujihiki, and a 180 wa-petty. I also have an Edge Pro, although it has been many months since I have used it, as I freehand sharpen nowadays.

The article you referenced is one person's opinion, and not anywhere near mine. Please don't take it as definitive of how to sharpen your knife, because it is not. I would suggest that you disregard everything in the article that pertains to sharpening, especially the notion that nothing lower than a 5k stone is appropriate for your Suisin. There is nothing "special" about the steel that made it "crumble" after using a Beston 500 - the edge problem was strictly the fault of the sharpener.

The most important thing to keep in mind when sharpening is to remove as little metal as necessary. Too many people seem to think that every sharpening session has to start with a coarse stone and move through a progression of stones. Following this prescription blindly will dramatically decrease the life of your knife. Choose to start with a grit appropriate to the task. If the knife has a chip in the edge that needs to be taken out, or if you are sharpening an extremely dull knife, or if you are thinning the blade then the coarse stone may be the best starting point. In most cases, a medium grit is more appropriate. On a knife like the Suisin it will likely be several months before you need to use a coarse stone, unless you need to repair it. I would go so far as to suggest that you try the EP polishing tapes for touching up your Suisin before you use any stone on it.

As far as the stock EP 1000 stone, please note that it is the equivalent of a 2000-3000 grit Japanese waterstone. For a gyuto, this is probably as high as you need to go.


+1

The EP 1k is fine to use on your Suisin - I used it on mine for many months before upgrading to aftermarket stones.

Actually you can stop here for a sincerely good slicer!

Take care.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:45 am
Posts: 1206
+2 to everything already said. His problem was not knowing what he was doing with his coarse stone, not the knife.

Welcome to the forum! Ask more questions for us to answer.

1000k is a million grit stone :) Yea I know what you mean, just kidding with ya. If you need one, I can do a million grit too :)

---
Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Rick wrote:... I would suggest that you disregard everything in the article that pertains to sharpening...


I suggest heeding said suggestion...



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:31 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 6
Thanks to all of you, that makes much sense! I'll stick to your advice, and yeah, I guess 1000k is a tad too fine for what I intend to do ^^

Now as I'm encouraged to asking more questions, here's an additional one: I've read on some sites but not on others that this knife, although it is not a traditional single-bevel blade like an usuba, deba, or yanagiba would be, is asymmetrically sharpened with a wider edge on the right side for a right-handed knife. Yet when I look at it through my 40x magnifier glass, it doesn't seem that obvious.

Any ideas as to the veracity of this claim, and, if true, how to handle that with the EP, because I'm kinda used to giving the knife roughly the same number of strokes on both sides ? To be honest, as I'm not sure there's an exact ratio of strokes on each sides, I don't feel like checking for the burr after each stroke to make sure I'm not under/overdoing it... Will it matter at all if I slowly drift towards a 50%-50% edge over the course of my EP sharpening ? Am I safe as long as I stick to the 1000 stone ?

Thanks again,

Nick.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:54 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Nick,

Yes, the Suisin Inox Honyaki is asymmetric, but in a knife that thin, you can all but disregard it. The bevels are so narrow that it is difficult to see that one is slightly larger than the other. If you want to see the asymmetric grind, put a straightedge up against the blade - you'll see that the left side is flat, and the right side is ever so slightly convexed.

My advice is to set the Edge Pro for fifteen degrees, and use the "marker trick" to make sure you are getting to the edge rather than trying to raise a burr or counting strokes. As usual with the Edge Pro, use very little pressure and check your work often. Stop as soon as removal of the marker shows you've hit the edge.

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:44 pm 
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15 degrees per side works very well for such a thin blade - will handle most things you task it for!

Took me many moons with trial & error to reach this conclusion - my Suisin 240mm was one of my first "decent" Jap knives.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Inox Honyaki Gyuto and stock EP stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:51 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 6
All right, I'll try that. For now I've been using it for two weeks (at home, in a non-intensive fashion), and with just a tiny bit of stropping from time to time it seems to keep cutting like a charm, slicing through everything from red beets and carrots to ripe tomatoes as if they were zucchini. I'll give it a touch-up with the 1000 grit EP stone when I feel I'm beginning to lose that.

Thanks for your help!

Nick.


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