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 Post subject: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:12 pm 

Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 19
Hi Ghuys,

I just recieved my tojiro itk petty, santuko and kiritsuke.

Would like to find out what the edge angle is that I should be sharpening at?


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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:49 pm 
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I stay at 15 degrees on each side with these knives for a good medium, 10 degrees each side if you can deal with a more delicate edge. You don't want to go too steep on a steel that is of low alloy or lower hardness. Anything that is around 60-61 Rockwell isn't going to hold up very well under 15 degrees while chopping, but if you aren't chopping then by all means thin it out a bit, you'll be impressed with the edge these knives can get, great bang for the buck. If you thin too much or sharpen too steep it will lead to either edge rolling or chipping.

My best advice is to follow close to the factory bevel, which should be very close to 15 degrees, and then go slightly flatter than that. You want to be slightly steeper than the factory bevel. Best way to do this is by ear and feel (and sight). So, start to sharpen, do your best start around or slightly under 15 degrees, keep going back and forth, and raise the knife slightly with each pass until you notice the pitch change, that is your factory angle. If you keep raising and notice no pitch change you are likely already hitting the edge. To check this feel the edge for a burr. If you have found the factory edge angle, then simply back down a bit from there and keep sharpening at that angle until you hear the pitch change again, check for a burr. Your edge should be slightly steeper now. Simply move to a finer grit and refine from there, bam! Remember, start with something coarse (220 to 500 grit).

What kind of stones do you have?



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:58 pm 

Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 19
Faaantastic. Thanks for the advice mr knife fanatic. I actually use the edge pro with som chooser a stones, wanna give free hand a try tho. Oh and I went with the kiritsuke based on your recommendation. What a sick knife. Should I worry about thinning this knife behind the edge?


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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Thanks, you're very welcome! Great that you use the edge pro, and I love those Choseras. I had the apex model with Choseras for a while and was quite impressed with the edges I could get with it. My personal favorite of the bunch was the 3k, but I'd really love to get my hands on a full sized set sometime.

I'm not sure how thin your kiritsuke is already, but I imagine you could stand to lower it to 13-14 degrees with your edge pro and use it a bit. If it doesn't chip on you then keep rolling! I think you'll be fine a bit under 15, but the closer you get to 10 the more you'll notice edge failure. As long as you aren't cutting rosemary branches and such you should be fine with all veggies and boneless meats. Chances are your edge may be a tad above 15 due to factory buffing, so I'd start at 15 on the edge pro and see if it raises a burr. The key to safely doing this is to do it in increments. It's nice to use it and appreciate each little performance gain and see the steel's capabilities. You may find that the knife holds up without chipping just fine with a 10 degree (per side) edge, but the increased honing to keep the edge straight might outweigh the benefits of just losing a tad of performance and going with something closer to 15. It all depends on how you will use the knife and how much you want to hone it. I think you'll have a lot of fun seeing how sharp these babies get under 15 though, every one that I've handled to date has had good heat treat, and believe it or not my ITK petty is the number 1 used knife in my house (opening bags, meat, small veggie jobs, etc.). My number 1 used gyuto at the moment is still the Tanaka Kurouchi blue 2, which actually replaced my ITK 210mm gyuto (because this was the prototype knife, I still have it).



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:37 pm 
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If you have a bit more time on your hands (I know edge pro's aren't the fastest) you can thin the knife down to 10 degrees per side then come back and add a 15 degree micro bevel for strength. This is a sure fire way to make most factory Japanese knives perform better without losing too much strength.

(please forgive any redundancy in this information, I always like to assume there are first-time readers on each thread.) :)



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:02 pm 

Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 19
Yea tho chosera stones are great. Your advice is rocking my world. As for your redundancy, it's no biggy:)

Would you take these knives up to like a 30 k stone? For a super polished edge? Guess it depends what you cutting. But in your experience?


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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:01 pm 
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My personal favorite edge to use on fine grained carbons is 4,000 grit range. Most fine grained steel will be easily shaving arm hair but still toothy enough for tomatoes and such at 4k. Your Chosera 3k or 5k would be best for your kitchen knives. These ITK's with White 2 are capable of taking a hair whittling edge, I've actually shaved with a few as have others, so if you want to go to 30k on the edge I simply suggest a little stropping after the Chosera 10k on whatever you like, but I can tell you an edge that refined won't last you terribly long in real world kitchen use. These knives take to refinement well but perform most kitchen tasks well around 4k. You can go 8k-10k if you wish as well, but you may notice it loses bite a little faster. They do come back very fast with a little honing, so if you hone while working then 8k would be just fine. I like to assume people won't be honing very much if at all.

If these knives were a little bit harder they'd hold higher refinement longer (8k +), but they'd also be more chippy. To get something that'll hold 8k at a steep angle, you need to be 63 rockwell and above IMO... and I really mean my 'opinion', please don't take that as any kind of anything... it's just abstract personal preference of hardness and what I see most knives able to do. White #1 is what broke me in on this. Around 60 or 61 reminds me of 52100 that sharpens even faster almost, but take it above 63 and it's totally transformed into something that holds a crazy steep edge. The Terayasu Fujiwara certainly opened my eyes, as well as melampus' on this.

Anyhow, after all of this, put a good Chosera 3k or 5k on your knives at 13 to 15 degrees and I promise you won't be complaining. They get silly sharp and are a solid representation of White #2, especially for the price. Just for giggles though, take your petty up as high as you can and stropp it carefully; It's a lot of fun :D



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Tojiro itk angles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:13 pm 

Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 19
When you talk about honing you mean on a steel? I also like to strop on some balsa between tasks.

Just sharpened my knives now. Petty game out real nice. Went all the way with it. Kiritsuke had a slight uneven ground in the middle so had to work it a bit and the santuko was nearly impossible, ha ha. Took me about 45 mins to get some sort of a 15 degree edge witch was not great, ended up putting a 18 degree micro bevel tho. I find the santoku not to go through food so easily, is that just because of its desighn? Is allot thicker in generall it seems.


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