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Re: to force or not to force

Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:04 pm

My Artifex 52100 210 Gyuto is not terribly reactive. I did force a mustard patina on it just to try out the technique. I would rate it average on reactivity, compared to my other carbon knives.

I'd recommend just using the knife and let a patina develop. If you really don't like it, you can scrub it off and force a patina with a pattern if you like. BTW, coating both sides of the blade with heavily mashed up banana creates and interested patina as well. Let it sit for a good 30 minutes, then wash and dry.

Re: to force or not to force

Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:09 pm

It isn't very reactive. Why I got impatient ;) In the BDL made me do it thread I have some picture before and after mustard patina. The before shot was from 4 nights at work plus a couple night at home. Usually get a more colorful one after that many shifts at work.

Re: to force or not to force

Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:15 pm

I forced a few patinas on my elite carbon petty. I scrubbed them all off, lol. The knife has its own now, rather blue. I scrub all my carbon knives off completely every couple weeks. One time it got a black one from peeling about 30 pounds of tomato concasse. That poor little guy was practically smoking that day!

Re: to force or not to force

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:43 pm

SteveG wrote:Melampus and others have remarked that cutting poultry will produce a patina that has a rainbow of blue and purple hues.


I didn't think it was right to create a new thread, when there was an older, appropriate thread.

May I ask if there have been any studies on patina?

1. Do any patina methods lend themselves to one color or the other? For example, mustard, horseradish, leaving in a apple, hot vinegar, chicken(leaving in a chicken, maybe?), firearm cold blue?

2. Is it better to apply once, or, as a I read on another forum(probably not good to post another forums link, right?), apply, remove, and apply multiple times?

3. What is the superior method? I'm guessing this is a can of worms I'm opening.

Re: to force or not to force

Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 pm

Id consider setting.

Are you working in a busy kitchen, barely time to make sure your knife is wiped fully clean, 20 careless cooks running around who might use it and leave it kinda setting? Might be worth it to force.

If you're keeping it for home use, or a calm, controlled environment, well I'd leave that up to preference.

The artifex is not nearly as reactive as most. I'd give it a 5/10 on reactivity, maybe even less. I enjoy what beef does to carbon personally. Slice up some raw or rare steaks/roasts and watch the blues come through. It's a beautiful thing.

Re: to force or not to force

Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Avoid firearm cold bluing. I've always wanted to try rust or fume blue but never found the time.

Cutting foods with nitrates and nitrites has resulted in nice blue patinas for me. Rub the knife evenly against a raw corned beef, let sit for a minute, and rinse under hot water. Repeat. Or rub the blade with some microwaved salami. Just the act of cutting hot rare beef can also work.



Re: to force or not to force

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:25 am

Nature? We are humans since when do we leave things up to nature? No we mess with nature and do things ourselves. Why? Cause we can.

Or something along those lines..........

I force patina all my carbon knives with hot unfiltered cider vinegar (that is just what I usually have in household). Usually a couple of layers till desired darkness. Sometimes a 60 minute bath.

Acid and metal composition does matter for patina. But with the hot cider vinegar I get graphite to black coloring. I only have blue #2 for some reason. Just realized that while typing this.

Re: to force or not to force

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:38 pm

Since posting this, I've been habitually forcing on the few times I've needed to (when it was new, after a terrible "thought it was dry" bkf experience, and after thinning/polishing) and use a "less is more" mustard and water mix. Let it dry, clean it, flip it, do it again on the other side, and then resharpen afterwards. Once the less cool looking natural patina takes over a few shifts later, it's almost completely non reactive. I definitely agree if you work in a busy kitchen, force it to start off with, I don't think it's completely necessary to reapply again and again if you really let the mustard work. In my experience, though, the numerous ingredient natural patina is the least reactive thing I've found.

Re: to force or not to force

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:42 pm

I should add that the more polished the metal is, the brighter the colors become. I've gotten vivid blues from mustard, and after cutting slabs of corned beef salmon pink and green. Apples and onions bring gray.

Re: to force or not to force

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:07 pm

You can also do a semi-forced patina with a bunch of onions. Cut half an onion in very thin strips, trying to use the entire length of the blade. Wait a minute, rinse with hot water, and then cut another half onion the same way. Then wait two minutes and rinse. Repeat with each half, increasing the time to rinsing. You can get a patina started on the most used parts of the knife with just a couple onions. Or do a bunch more onions and get even more of a start.
I have done this and forced a patina--I kinda like both.
I've also done hot vinegar etch on stainless clad carbon--gives the core a dark, almost black color. Looks cool on my AS Hiromoto.
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