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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:16 am 
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Posts: 4241
I am not a professional by any means when it comes to slinging a knife. I can say that anything I did with the Goko the TF did better or easier. To me they sit at their perspective price points for a reason, though not true of all knives. Both knives are competent but this comparison is like comparing apples to watermelons.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:25 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 221
Apples win. More versatility.


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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:20 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 283
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
To me, this thread started as a "contrast" of differences and a "comparison" and not brute argument or competition over the fact that one knife was obviously better than the other. I'd still like to see that kind of write-up, which I'd interpret as an attempt to articulate just what is different about each knife, as well as any similarities they may have.

Mel, thanks for your recent contribution. I actually think it gets really close to what I'm yearning for above, albeit from a very defensive perspective rather than a more exploratory one. I always enjoy when your posts try to articulate solid opinions based on experience—which can be, of course, taken as "fact" or "right" and even "objective" when described with enough detail that we can all follow them, or even recreate them on our own. Many such posts also approach being "righteous," although I've noticed many others fail in this regard...still not sure why you chose that word, but I will comfortably add that I do hope this is a forum where we can aspire to well-meaning comments, behavior, and especially advice even when we all have very different levels of expertise and fluency with knives and knife vocabulary, and sometimes lack the experience to give the best advice even though we mean/hope to.

Anyways, I'm still enjoying reading about these knives – neither of which are familiar to be through anything but reputation – and I hope that it can continue along the lines of Mel's and Dan's descriptions rather than divulge into a simple, broad "apples are better than oranges," which is the spirit of a one-and-done competition rather than an informed comparison. I, for one, don't feel the need to buy a Acura over a Honda—when compared, I realize the Honda meets all of my needs for much less money and commitment, even if the Acura performs better in most categories of comparison.



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Ownership experience: Konosuke, Masamoto, Tojiro, Wusthof, Henckels, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:33 pm 
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You may not agree with my opinion or how I express it but I'm still entitled to it and I don't need the lecture. Mel said the same thing just in a more articulate way and you felt the need to suck up to him. "Informed comparison". One is an Acura, one is a Honda, there is your comparison no apples or oranges involved. Buy the one you want. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 283
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Jeff B wrote:You may not agree with my opinion or how I express it but I'm still entitled to it and I don't need the lecture. Mel said the same thing just in a more articulate way and you felt the need to suck up to him. "Informed comparison". One is an Acura, one is a Honda, there is your comparison no apples or oranges involved. Buy the one you want. ;)


Are you writing this to me? FYI – and Mel clearly knows this – my comments were directed at him and his initial "disapproval" of the thread. The mention of apples and oranges was only about follow-ups based on his first criticism of the thread, and not about the fact that other people followed in his wake. His use of the word "righteous" was probably directed at me (and not as a complement), which implies he knew exactly what I was referring to, and that he didn't exactly appreciate it (not sure how that is sucking up). If I'm wrong here, I'm sure Mel will correct me, but he tends to be very exacting in his language, and doesn't make slips and misuses of terms (such as the play between "right" and "righteous," which have two very different meanings) without specific intention...at least not in my limited experience of reading his posts.

I'm sorry if you were offended, Jeff, but seriously, I wasn't pointing fingers or lecturing as regards to the "apples and oranges" made by others, but in regards to trying to get the thread back on its original track and pointing out my own interests. I'm sure Mel wasn't offended, as he knows himself and me well enough to know my interest is in opening up discussion and not in insulting anyone here on the forum, himself included. Also, and put less tactfully, he knows my opinion is of little consequence based on my experience, so it is hardly worth getting worked up over. And as far as you, I've always delighted when I've asked you for more details on your opinions and you had the kindness to answer me: I accept that advice seriously and graciously.

Finally, even though I haven't handled either knife, I'm actually in agreement with your opinion: these are two different knives, and one of them is almost certainly, objectively "better" than the other in broad terms. But that's not my interest in the thread, and I don't think the original intention was to discover this single (simple) point. Point is, no one is trying to take away your ability to express your opinion. I'm just interested in other things regarding these knives, and I am expressing that opinion openly to others.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Joe --> I went back and reread most of the thread and want to say that I owe you an open apology. I took some things wrong and saw some things directed at me that clearly wasn't and I acted inappropriately in responding to them. I'm going to chalk this one up to having a bad day and take a break for the night and go chop some shit up!
Please accept my humble apology and I too have enjoyed our passed our interactions and hope there are more in the future.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 283
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Jeff—Don't sweat it, really. I do appreciate the apology, if for no other reason than it allows me to see that you see my intentions and that I didn't mean to insult you or anyone else at all. And while I do admit to trying to provide an aggressive "contra" position to Mel's earliest comment, I hope you and others also note that I tried to encourage the type of description and helpful comments of his later post (not that Mel needs my approval or encouragement, either! You get my drift). I meant it all as a matter of encouraging a certain type of response and discussion, and not insulting or intimidating anyone to shut up.

I know this kind of moderating isn't my place. I've been on the forum a lot lately because I'm currently between jobs and have a lot of flex time. I can write lots and read lots and don't have the usual pressures that so many others have. It is obvious that many of us use the forum to let off steam, to let off stress, and so much else, and I like that a lot. I like it so much that I want to make sure everyone feels comfortable doing that in their own way, which can't be said of most forums, at least from what I gather (this is the only forum I've ever really participated in!). That said, I appreciate your honest feedback, Jeff, and I'll try to be clearer and less self-righteous in regards to directing discussion (and I do mean self-righteous un-ironically) in future posts.

My apologizes go out to Dan most of all. Sorry that this has taken so much out of the thread! I am still looking forward to more comments from you and others about these knives, especially as you grow closer to the T-F.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Posts: 1027
I really kicked the hornet's nest on this one haha.

As the use of the Teruyasu-Fujiwara unfolds, I have to say, it is almost ridiculous the way this knife cuts.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:15 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1351
Like Joe, I enjoyed what was trying to be accomplished when the thread started. I'm very interested to see what you prefer or dislike about each knife comparatively as context like this can be quite informative (at least to my uninformed ass). It's too easy to say one knife is better than the next. Albeit, my experience is incredibly limited but, it seems to me there isn't a linear progression of "betterness" across all aspects of a knife so nailing down the nuances of where, how, why one knife performs better than another in some, or all, circumstances is pretty interesting to me.



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 Post subject: Re: TF 240 V. Goko W#1 240
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Having mulled this over for another month, spending a large amount of time with the T-F on the board and in-hand, these knives feel more different than they do similar; at least where the two I own are concerned. The T-F is a big, heavy knife at 240mm. Mine is 54mm tall and 246 along the edge. It is a monster. My Goko stands at 52mm tall today and is right on at 240mm along the edge. The Goko has a 3mm spine @ the base where the T-F is 4mm. The grind on the Goko is well done for what some call a "budget" knife, and is definitely its selling point above the F+F of the blade and handle. And while one may think the Goko would be ground thinner, it really isn't. In fact, in that regard the T-F is just a hair thinner at the edge than the Goko is. The Nashiji finish on these two knives is similar, may be a bit rougher on the T-F (read literally, not suggesting poorly done). The Goko is lighter by a good margin, but the T-F wears its weight very well, both knives feel similar in hand, but the T-F has better balance, whereas the Goko feels more forward heavy. An unfair handle comparison would be that obviously OOTB the T-F's handle smokes the Goko. After some work the Goko can have as comfortable a handle as the T-F. For me, neither knife needed finishing along the spine or along the choil area, others who only accept Kono-esque finish may desire more in this regard. Both knives have what I call a more robust edge.

So far we have a few points where these knives meet, and several where they diverge. Another point where they diverge is in the edge retention camp. The T-F's much higher HRC puts this White #1 into orbit above the Goko's edge life. The T-F will go days, where the Goko can go a day, haha. For those familiar with White #1 that is an amazing difference. The Teruyasu- Fujiwara separates product in a truly amazing way. The cut of this knife with a high refinement is really something that has to be experienced. The sensation is really lost in translation from board to page. Just amazing; and the knife makes that cut time, after time, after time again. I first used it to slice a tomato, (I know, how mundane?) upon the first slice I just had to set the knife down, and take it in, lol. The Goko has never, probably will never, and can't cut in a way that will stop me speechless like that. I sliced again and just had the biggest grin on my face it has seen in some years. Since that time, the sheer awe has worn off, I expect it from the T-F now and only from the T-F. In raw cutting ability it is possibly the best knife ever, certainly the best in my collection. After sharpening off the OOTB edge, no chipping has recurred.

How can the Goko measure up you may ask?

Well, it can start by being a great deal less expensive. It can add onto that by being a good knife in its own right. The Goko doesn't act like a T-F and doesn't try to. The 60HRC on this knife still allows a great degree of sharpness from the W#1, but it won't last for the 3 days the T-F goes without a strop. The Goko never had a chippiness issue and has not sneered at anything I have ever cut with it. The cut is not otherworldly, but it cuts. I still remember a day of 25# small dice tomato with this knife and thinking "wow, it still cuts," lol.

Really, after the vegetables are cut and the day is done, these knives, in my examples are the same as they are different. My Goko is pretty flat in profile, my T-F has a bit of a gut. The T-F is a bigger knife than my Goko. If my I left my T-F at home, and took my Goko, I would live. If I left the Goko at home and took the T-F, well I'm taking a much bigger risk really. Anything can happen ITK, if some donkey dropped my T-F or tried to get sticky fingers, it would be a bigger issue than someone damaging the Goko. (I would probably be just as devastated in reality, lol)

Really there is not a whole lot to be said here, these knives are different and similar at once. Even if at sometime the only thing the same is that they are the same steel. Blindfold me and I can tell the difference. But both knives can hack it ITK, the Goko does it cheaper; the T-F does it better.

Any specific questions, please feel free to ask, I will do my best to field them.

Edit: Fixed some issues with the proofreading.


Last edited by Dan_Crubenew on Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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