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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:13 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:17 pm
Posts: 9
There's a reason why I gravitated towards this site, I lurked forums for a while and definitely picked up a vibe over there. After reading all this and that post I kinda got all tense ...yikes...and I'm not even considering a Takeda.
I may have to go put a blade on a stone to relax!

Btw... Thanks for the video of that Nubatama bamboo 3k Ken. Just got it and...>>ALL SMILES<<


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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:32 am 
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Thanks for the feedback. That 3k is an incredible stone and I'm real pleased that you are appreciating it's qualities.

And a big 'Welcome to the Forum!'

---
Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:59 am 

Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 9:21 pm
Posts: 449
Regardless of recent bashing, Takeda is still near the top of my want list.


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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:10 am 
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Maybe I should put one of his knives on the forum sale so you can try it.



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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 68
1) There is a reason that there are so few folks posting to/visiting KKF. I have never picked up any really useful information there. At CKTG, I'm learning at least one or two things each time I visit, thanks to all those who share.

2) I have three Takedas I purchased from Mark last year: a 210 AS Sasanoha; 210 Gyuto and Mini Petty 100. A few observations:
a) All three were very sharp OOTB.
b) All three take a really great edge and HOLD IT - a pass or two over horse butt with diamond spray is all that is required to touch them up.
c) The 201 Gyuto needed thinning to eliminate a bit of a wedging issue; one session with 500 Shapton Glass and that issue was resolved, at least to my satisfaction.
d) They are really "agile" knives in use; I find I am less conscious of them in my hand than most of my other knives.
e) Fit and finish are great, as long as you like Takeda's kurouchi finish. This finish is not the smoothest going through tall, dense product like an apple. But I like the look.

Finally, let me add my personal thanks to both Ken and Mark for their patience in helping me get up to speed and then keeping me learning!


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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2644
Location: CT
Mark, on Facebook this fall/summer, IIRC Shosui posted about how he had a worker quit with no notice and had to find a replacement. He also posted that people rotate through the various jobs/processes, so I think we are seeing the effects of several different people's styles coming through. Some are thinner, some are thicker. They are handmade knives and will vary. Shosui's FB page shows that he is at shows a lot and often not in the shop for a few weeks at a time, yet some people don't understand this.

I thinned out one and it wasn't too bad to do. They are light and nimble, but I just haven't seen/found the right one for me, but I can't explain why! Some love them, some hate them like you said. It's a hand made knife and will vary. Some have been a bit too thick behind the edge IMHO for some because everyone expects them to be the lasers that they used to be. People forgot that we are the minority and connoisseurs in this field and often think that the world revolves around us and everything out there is made with MY/OUR preferences in mind. Not everyone wants an ultra thin laser!! In truth, we are a smaller segment of the buying public that we realize and many people love the Takeda's even though some may be too thick for some. Same as the Artifex; some complain they are too thick behind the edge, but others feel they are just right for what they are doing! I've used knives from other makers that wedged much more than the Takeda or Artifex people complain about, but no one mentions that at all. In fact, they go as far as to say that everyone on the forum here is a shill/groupie and no one gives bad reviews and if someone gives a good review of a knife from CKTG, regardless of maker/brand, many jump on the review and try to discredit it, and some have gone as far as implying someone was a shill and then aid they had no clue about knives, so their impartial review was useless. Yes everyone who gives a glowing review for a paid Vendor on the forum is a completely credible source and only those paying Vendors are ever really talked about or recommended, implying that other vendors are not good. SSDD from the same people. I think your sales figures and this forum speak for themselves!

The funny thing is this wasn't even an issue a few years ago. No one really mentioned Takedas much on that forum. It was lately seen by some as a way to attack CKTG since you were one of the few retailers of Takeda in the US; once other stores in Canada/US started to sell them and people caught on, then people would deliberately tell people to get one from a "reputable" dealer/merchant and recommend Knifewear, implying that you are not a dealer to be trusted and that you sell the "bad" Takedas and Knifewear has the "good" ones. Then when you offered the "personal shopper" item, they again ragged on you for charging for handpicking and taking specs/pics of multiple knives and putting them all on hold until the customer decides and then claimed other places do this for free, which I have never seen mentioned or offered previously. It's the same as before, use any excuse to rag on CKTG for something CKTG has no control over (or is a non issue) and promote other stores over CKTG.


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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Taz posted: "Mark, on Facebook this fall/summer, IIRC Shosui posted about how he had a worker quit with no notice and had to find a replacement. He also posted that people rotate through the various jobs/processes, so I think we are seeing the effects of several different people's styles coming through. Some are thinner, some are thicker. They are handmade knives and will vary. Shosui's FB page shows that he is at shows a lot and often not in the shop for a few weeks at a time, yet some people don't understand this."

This pretty much falls in line with what I was offering Taz. Either way...Takeda has a certain amount of knives in stock...so maybe we'll see it go back to the previous grind, maybe not.

However, I do believe that when a person puts out ~ $300 for a knife, they shouldn't have to then send it back in to be reground; A lot of these people are going off of reviews from a long time ago, before purchasing. A few years back, people seemed ecstatic about his knives, including me! I hate to see him lose some of the NA market-share, for whatever reason.

He seems like a really nice, quiet spoken guy.



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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Yup, and he recently added the stainless cladding, which may have needed to be thicker or something. Lots of variables to consider!


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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 198
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
chefknivestogo wrote:Maybe I should put one of his knives on the forum sale so you can try it.


I'd love this, especially with a smaller funayuki or sasanoha...although I don't have 100 posts yet (and probably won't get there for a good long while!). I've been impressed with the "style" of these knives for a long time, but they don't really fit my primary needs at this time. To pick up a smaller, versatile blade for a little cheaper would be awesome, especially one that I could experiment with a bit by thinning out the shoulder (I also noticed a few recent choil shots that confirm that at least some of these blades appear to have a very short bevel leading to a fairly thin but flat grind up the rest of the knife...quite different from the more consistent slope of, say, a masamoto vg-10 or most Konos, which have more acute angles leading from the edge pretty far up the blade). I imagine the geometry of these knives makes them sharp but tough, even while the extreme thinness and lightness of the blade as a whole make it feels more like a laser than something with some meat behind the edge.

Obviously, my comments are just adding a less experienced perspective to the bucket of wisdom already posted! I guess my point is that, as others suggest, I'd try to find the inherent value in the product as it is, and then perhaps tailor it to what I want, rather than expect such a knife to arrive as-is to perfectly suit my personal tastes as a laser or whatever. It is true, however, that if I bought a different brand of knife, I would have a different set of expectations (and expect a greater level of consistency), so perhaps that does say something about the influence of images and forum responses regarding this maker for those of us who only know Takeda knives from the posted experience of others. Again: a vote for Mark's sale suggestion, perhaps...



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 Post subject: Re: Takeda Quality Issues?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:31 pm 
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The Takedas usually have a hollow/concaved surface forged between the blade road and spine, but may not always be visible from a choil shot. It's when the blade road and concave area meet at too steep of an angle, it can make the blade thick there and can lead to edging. Bringing the blade road grind farther up the blade more into the concave area will usually reduce/eliminate the wedging.


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