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 Post subject: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:24 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:21 pm
Posts: 12
So today my boss decided to use my deba to cut up a lobster and chipped the hell out of my knife :evil: He told me that he was surprised it was damaged because he said that he used a deba before and it never chipped. So i guess my question is is a deba not made for breaking down whole fish (cutting through bones/heads), or is it strictly for filleting the meat from the bone? It only seemed to make sense that with such a big/thick heel that it could handle bones, am i misinformed about this? Is there a certain type of deba meant for breaking down fish bones or is that only a job for cleavers? Thanks for your input.

- Matt

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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:28 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 265
you sir were somewhat misinformed, it is meant for filleting fish in a traditional eastern mannor. I may be used for cutting through some bone for example head removal but even then not hacking but using downward pressure at the heel with additional weight from you above the heel.
If you need something that can handle more use a western deba, or the allmight cleaver of old... or you could just get a global and appease the knife gods for our good man melampus


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:45 am 
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Posts: 7671
Location: Madison Wisconsin
I agree, debas are fillet knives, they're not meant to be used as soft steel cleavers. If you chop through lobster shells or chicken bones or frozen foods you are asking for trouble. Use a beater, soft steel german knife for these tasks. They're much tougher than you're suisin deba.



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:49 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 733
You should send it to Ken123 for a spa day and provide your boss the bill.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:04 am 
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MATT <>

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Your "boss" is a FRICKIN IDIOT that has absolutely no idea WTF he's talking about. If he doesn't pay for that knife to be repaired or replaced, I would hurt his body, mind, and/or soul immediately following his refusal. DUDE, THAT'S A HONYAKI! THAT'S DISRESPECT TO THE Nth: disrespect to you, disrespect to Suisin, disrespect to himself for not manning up to his mistake. A DEBA FOR LOBSTER.?! ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME.?! AND THAT HE DIDN'T STOP AFTER HIS FIRST CUT IS WHAT PROVES FURTHER HIS ABSOLUTE FREAKING CLUELESSNESS.

You, sir... have a restraint I do not envy. :evil:

And to all you parents who are scared to beat your kids, you are the ones to blame for producing rejects like this "boss" who galavant through our society without a shred of accountability or respect. This is INFURIATING. :evil:



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:19 am 
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It won't be the first I've done for just this reason :) It is fixable. The last one was a Shun deba that this chef's father used to hack through frozen oxtails. Not pretty. Repairs of this sort are a lot more work than a double bevel knife. You have to grind down not just the edge but the whole front bevel. This sort of repair is exactly why I got the grinder setup I do that can go slow enough to act like a hand ground edge repair for the initial work. Otherwise it will take many HOURS of grinding.

For this sort of kitchen work - WESTERN debas are the weapon of choice - lobsters, turkeys, pork bones, cutting down small trees in the garden, etc. Debas are meant to go through fish bones - NOT land animals with lots of calcium in their bones. I don't even recommend chicken bones for a regular deba. You can get away with it, but one old tough chicken and you will chip out the edge.

People unfamiliar with Japanese traditional knives see a deba's thick spine and think it must work like an axe. But since it is a single bevel, the included angle of the blade is roughly HALF a western style blade's total inclusive angle.

I think everyone should have a western Deba in their roll or kitchen. This way you can make your gyutos more delicate 'lasers' and leave the major beast hacking to the Western Debas.

---
Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:26 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Vancouver, Canada
For fish spine, I would break the spine with my hand then cut through between the vertebrates with the deba.

For heads, I would cut through the jaw with deba. Where it doesn't cut through easily, I would use the other hand to apply more pressure on the spine.

When I sharpen my deba, I do put a more obtuse angle at the heel to avoid chipping.even then I would never chop at fish bone or head, let alone use it on a lobster. I use my the spine of my Chinese cleaver to break the shell and kitchen shear for the belly.

The pictures of your chipped knife made me sad. :(

p. s. Luckily, it doesn't look too bad to fix :)


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:31 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
Posts: 288
I never knew lobster meat could do so much damage.

There are only a couple moments where when i've been breaking down a lobster that I've even used a knife. Most of those moments I use the spine of the knife rather than the blade. I've found it works better to crack the shell on the claws yet not cut into the meat. Other tasks like killing them with a knife or halving a tail should definately be done with a tougher knife. Deba are not cleavers.

I can't really expand upon what the previous posters have posted otherwise. They said it much more eloquently than I could have. He should never be trusted around your knives again.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:39 am
Posts: 20
My heart aches for this poor knife's soul. God, it looks so beat up..


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin Deba chipping (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:40 am 
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Yeah... this was an idiot who hacked through a 40# grouper spine, & yes, it took me four hours to fix it by hand on diamond plate & whetstones. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT.?! It took 2 seconds to not make that second cut after his first cut destroyed the edge. Beat him like the little bitch he's playing out to be if he doesn't man up! :x


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note how I had to raise the shinogi:
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<reference thread> <--link



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