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 Post subject: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:44 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 190
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
I am considering getting a finer grit stone than the 8k Shapton glass. I am sold on the Naniwa super sotne 12k. It is out of stock here and a couple of other places only have them as high as 10k. Getting a 16k Shapton glass is another option but I didn't want to get it for my knives so I'd rather spend less for a stone just for my razor. But, if I did get the 16k Shapton I could also use it for knives which is justification (sort of) to spend the extra money. But, what are other stones to get just for my razor in the 12k grit range in the $60-$75 ballpark. Are the Naniway 12k stones going to be in stock here in the future? I'm in no hurry but I want to get something in addition to my 8k Shapton glass for my razors. I have the 16k for the EP but it's small. I will use it though.

I was told the Naniwa 12k is great for razors because it's a bit softer than some stones which would leave a great finish on the edge. It can be used for knives but you need to be careful not to gouge the stone because of it's softness. I could live with that and use it on my knives if I wanted to. I don't want to pay what the 16k Shapton glass stone costs if I can help it. I don't WANT it for knives but would USE it if I had it. :) One of those situations so the Shapton glass 16k is not out of the question. :) ANy ideas guys? Thanks for any help.

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:17 am 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 6:39 pm
Posts: 258
For a straight why not jump into a pair of JNats , say:

Yaganinoshima Asagi - To convert the scratch pattern from Synthetic to Jnat
Ozuku Asagi , or Nakayam Asagi - To finish up on

This combo would easily surpass the 16k and even 30k shapton in terms of razor performance. You could even just stick with the Yaginoshima and still outdo the 16k.

If you want to stick with synthetics id definitely choose the shapton.



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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
It sounds like your main concern is a stone for your razor. From your post I'm assuming you currently have the Shapton glass 8000. Sadden is correct in the thinking that eventually you will want to go to some jnats. However, your other concern is $. I bought the Shapton glass 16,000 for my razors because it is the best bang for your buck in a stone above the 12,000 grit level. I would get either the Shapton glass 16,000 or this Shapton pro 15,000. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro15gr.html
I don't have experience with the pro's but many people prefer them over the glass. You can jump to this grit level from your 8,000. You don't really need the 12,000 between. I think if you get the 12 you will sooner than later realize it's not enough. Just like eventually you will probably want something higher than 16000. I would buy the best stone for razor progression you can afford. I think the extra money to make the jump that much higher is worth it. The stone will last a VERY long time if reserved for razors. If you absolutely can't afford it, wait for the 12. It will be an improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:47 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 925
I use a ozuku asagi to finish razors, works great after my Arashiyama if used with a slurry. Actually its almost a must that you use a slurry stone or nagura because the stone is so hard the blade skates without it.

I never liked the Naniwa SS 12k, it not enjoyable to use and the edge it yields is very polished but less than impressive. I found razor sharpening much more difficult when using super stones and most polishing type synthetic stones, natural stones always worked faster and provided a much sharper edge that required less stropping to become shave ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:59 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 190
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
RedWattle wrote:It sounds like your main concern is a stone for your razor. From your post I'm assuming you currently have the Shapton glass 8000. Sadden is correct in the thinking that eventually you will want to go to some jnats. However, your other concern is $. I bought the Shapton glass 16,000 for my razors because it is the best bang for your buck in a stone above the 12,000 grit level. I would get either the Shapton glass 16,000 or this Shapton pro 15,000. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro15gr.html
I don't have experience with the pro's but many people prefer them over the glass. You can jump to this grit level from your 8,000. You don't really need the 12,000 between. I think if you get the 12 you will sooner than later realize it's not enough. Just like eventually you will probably want something higher than 16000. I would buy the best stone for razor progression you can afford. I think the extra money to make the jump that much higher is worth it. The stone will last a VERY long time if reserved for razors. If you absolutely can't afford it, wait for the 12. It will be an improvement.


You are correct in that this stone purchase is for razors. But, if the same purchase can be a great stone for knives while not taking away from the best choice for razors all the better. The Shapton glass 16k has recently been suggested as a great choice for razors as well as the Naniwa 12k. Not "better" than the Naniwa though. I have been guilty of in an effort to save $ I buy something adequate knowing I WANT something else that is more expensive. In time however I buy want I WANTED so the money wasted was the first purchase while trying to save money. Of course I'd have another stone which is good or I could sell it. Still, I'd be better off if I can't afford the more expensive item today it's better to wait until I can get some additional $ and get what I want. I won't be making this stone purchase real soon because of other things I want first so I guess I'll get the Shapton 16k. You are the first person who has suggested I may want something higher than 16k. I have the 16k Shapton glass for the EP and I'm starting to use that. I am worried that I may lift or drop the handle causing the edge to ride along the side corner of the stone. This may or may not effect the edge negatively. Another thing I have to deal with right now is my inexperience. I'm feeling more comfortable while honing but my ability is still lacking. Nothing will fix this other than practice and experience. My shaves now are ok but not real comfortable. This could be attributed to a razor not honed real well or poor shaving technique. Both probably. Being inexperienced at everything makes it hard to put my finger on a problem. I'm assuming my "problems" are just something a new straight razor shaver goes through. Since this purchase is planned for the somewhat distant future I'll look at the jnats as well. I have bought and sold quite a few stones trying to get what I want for knives. I have 7 or 8 now that I'm going to keep. I'd just as soon not do that again just for razors.

Thanks for the help guys.

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
If that's your line of thinking and you don't mind waiting on the purchase. Maybe do what sadden and Jeff b suggested and finish on the naturals. Eventually this is where you will want to end up for the very best results. The ozuku is a serious investment but is the desired destination IMO. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ohiratomae1.html
I'm not trying to muddy the waters, just giving you something to think about. I don't know your financial situation or if you'd even consider spending this much in a stone. The 16k is a good interim choice. You can produce a comfortable shave with this when paired with a good stropping progression afterwards. Another option is to send your razor to have a professional hone it. This will give you a benchmark on what the edge should be. Check out some of the sharpeners listed here in this forum under sharpeners corner.


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 224
I too would suggest naturals. Shaves have been much better since I started finishing on them. I went the cheap route and got the jyunsyouhonyama on this site as the first stone, which I actually love finishing my knives on as well, and then a nakayama asagi that was small sized and irregularly shaped, so not overly expensive. I've bought shave ready razors finished on the shapton 16k glass and I find my natural progression to be far more comfortable.

Seems like there are several options for both pre polish and polishers, that if you are willing to use small stones, are not overly expensive. I have finished a 12 inch suji on my 5.5 inch by 3 inch jyunsyouhonyama, and have not found it that hard. Not ideal obviously but very doable.

The synthetics do the job as well, so if you prefer go that route. Shaptons seem to be the razor guys choice. Just sharing my experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
For an inexpensive finisher for razors, it's hard to beat the Chinese 12k:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200492 ... x-114.aspx

If you look on eBay, it can be sometimes found for even less.


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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7684
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Jack,

I'll be getting some more of these Nakayama koppas and they're really good for razor sharpeners.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/nakayamakoppa.html

I should have 2 more from Takeda in a couple weeks, maybe less.



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 Post subject: Re: Straight razor high grit stone suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:04 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 239
This guy is good. Hangs out over on Knifeforums - keeping sharp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Otee5_DHEA
If he says the EP stones work, I believe it. And you can work with what you have for now then get the Jnats when you're ready.

Douglas


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