It is currently Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:54 am



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 2 of 3 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:33 am 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2647
Location: CT
Beston 500 cuts faster, leaves deeper scratches and is harder than the Latte 400. Big feel in difference, but not much difference in speed. Latte leaves a smoother less scratchy finish (ie for Kasumi finishes). Nubatama 1K Medium Ume or Bester 1200 for the 1K stone; both outperform the King and are much faster and harder. Same comparison vs the Bester 500 vs Latte; Bester is harder/faster but feels more coarse, Nubatama Ume 1K medium is a bit softer/slower, but leaves a finer finish.

Rika 5K, I love this stone! Finish off with a bare leather strop and you have a wickedly aggressive/toothy edge for slicing, but works great on push cutting tasks. Great for stropping on to touch up the edge, too.

Mark has some kits with a diamond flattening plate, stone holder, leather strops etc as combo's.

$60: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/stsetwiunhob.html

If you want an angle cube, go for it, I have never used one and just sharpen by feel for the angles.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:40 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3328
The angle cube is used more with the Edge Pro and is a bit of a waste for freehand sharpening.



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:26 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 3
^
That bit's especially good to know. I sometimes get overzealous about measuring stuff and need to let it go sometimes.

^^
Most likely I'll give the latte a go if it's in stock when I'm visiting the States (draconian import duties if I have it shipped to Thailand). I'll probably go with the Rika for the fine stone.

THANKS!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:16 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 316
Location: Philly
I'm sure my post won't be popular. But if you are only sharpening softish German style steel or cheap j knives I'm not sure if I would personally sink that much money into a sharpening kit. Now if you several $250 knives then to me it makes sense to drop 200-300 on stones.

If not I would probably get an oil stone kit for under 80. That would have 4 progressions and a strop. Will it take longer to sharpen sure. Will you learn and go thru progression, yes. Plus you don't need a flattener. I don't find the oil messy I make way more a mess with waterstones.

Then when you get hard super steel or steel that takes a super fine edge you could convert to water stones. But how about if that is a year or 2 away. Why waste that money on stones now.

I rather have the oil stones and a 150 knife now. Then soft German steel and expensive water stones now.

But like I said this view point is prob not popular and it's just a personal opinion.



_________________
There's an old Italian saying, don't burn your tongue on another man's soup.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:10 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 645
Location: Raleigh, NC
As you build a sharpening kit, it's not only good to consider what you need but what you will need and how those interact. If you want to consider oil stones, feel free, but they'll be a terrible pain to use with harder Japanese knives. Waterstones also grow into larger, more versatile kits. Oil stones don't have much variation; if you don't like how a Hard Black Arkansas leaves your knives, tough. The stone system I learned on cost much more than $80; usually a good set of mixed India and Arkansas stones will be more like $200. As for a mess, setting up your work space properly eliminates that issue for any type of sharpening, oil stone or water stone. Long story short, if you don't mind spending more time on the stones and never plan to have harder knives, an oil setup is fine, but if you don't mind flattening your stone occasionally, buy waterstones. The oil stones will last longer but the waterstones work faster and, to me, the other elements are comparable. And, of course, for harder Japanese knives waterstones are pretty much required.

As for spending more money on knives and following up with stones, I could not disagree more. A dull knife is a dull knife. A better setup, which will not break your bank but will not come for pocket change, will generate a better edge on anything. If you skimp on stones, you're hurting yourself more than skimping on knives. I would absolutely prefer an Artifex and a fully developed $200 sharpening system than a Konosuke and a $50 sharpening system.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:37 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 775
whosthebestcop wrote:I'm sure my post won't be popular. But if you are only sharpening softish German style steel or cheap j knives I'm not sure if I would personally sink that much money into a sharpening kit. Now if you several $250 knives then to me it makes sense to drop 200-300 on stones.

If not I would probably get an oil stone kit for under 80. That would have 4 progressions and a strop. Will it take longer to sharpen sure. Will you learn and go thru progression, yes. Plus you don't need a flattener. I don't find the oil messy I make way more a mess with waterstones.

Then when you get hard super steel or steel that takes a super fine edge you could convert to water stones. But how about if that is a year or 2 away. Why waste that money on stones now.

I rather have the oil stones and a 150 knife now. Then soft German steel and expensive water stones now.

But like I said this view point is prob not popular and it's just a personal opinion.


It's just a bad way to think about it, there is no need to start with low grade tools when high grade makes life easy tools are available. For $100 I can name plenty of stone sets that will work just fine and do a better job than oil stones.

No offense but your post is the old way of looking at things, there is no beginner point for sharpening tools but there is a difference in using better tools.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3328
^^ +1 ^^ It's also better to have the stones and know how to use them BEFORE you spend $250 on a knife. I bought nice stones and learned how to use them on my German steel before buying an expensive J-knife not knowing how to sharpen it.



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:53 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 775
Jeff B wrote:^^ +1 ^^ It's also better to have the stones and know how to use them BEFORE you spend $250 on a knife. I bought nice stones and learned how to use them on my German steel before buying an expensive J-knife not knowing how to sharpen it.


Another excellent point.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:28 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 316
Location: Philly
Some real good valid points. I did say my post was going to be unpopular. I guess it is old school. Its what the WW2 generation used, the grandfather generation. If it was good for them then its probably good for a lot of us. And we all probably have seen loads of people put a mirror polish hair whittling edge on a knife using oil stones. Does it take an extra 30-35 minutes, yup. Is it as good as a 15k edge finished with strop loaded with diamond spray, nope. Did it cost 1/3 or 1/4 the price, yup. Not comparing whats the better performer but there is a huge price point different. And a certain times you do have to say how whats getting me the best job without killing the bank.

I would love to see a solid waterstone kit with strop coming in at $150 but I don't see it. But does everyone really need to put $200-$250 into a sharpening? no doubt plenty of people have that need, but not a 100%. What is sharpening; its maintenance. You wouldn't put more money into maintenance then the actual item your are maintaining right? The cheapest I have seen anywhere was a Naniwa Super Stone kit 220, 1000 & 5000 for around $110. No strop and not flattener.

Take a cheap espresso machine used daily. You still have to descale once a month. you still have to perform gasket and brew head maintenance every 6 months. That can easily be a couple hundred every year. Would you want to put a couple hundred into maintaining something that is worth only a $99? Or take computers. You don't spend more into upgrading older computers when the price of maintaining and upgrades is more then the computer. You buy a new computer at a certain maintenance price point.

In the line of business I am in. I have to tell customers honestly all the the time they are looking to put more money into maintenance then the object is worth. If they still want to do it, ok cool.

Like I said this is the unpopular opinion. And everyone did bring up valid counter points. So I won't say anything more about the subject I just wanted to explain my thinking a little bit more in hopes of not sounding like a complete crack pot.



_________________
There's an old Italian saying, don't burn your tongue on another man's soup.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stone recommendation
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3328
My stone set is worth more than any one knife I own, but my knife SET is worth about 4 times my stone set. You need to look at it that way. If you are only going to own one $20 knife in your life time then no, you don't need $200 worth of wet stones, but how much is all your steel worth and what's it worth to maintain them all?



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred