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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Your list is long, and impressively thought out, but:

As others have said, too much duplication.

Of your entire list of knives, I'd get, in order:

K-Sabatier 10" chef knife - 2019 or the Artifex 9.4" chef knife
K-Sabatier 4" paring knife - 2018 or the Artifex paring knife
Richmond Artifex 10.5" bread knife - 2017
Sabatier Nogent 6" slicer - 2015
K-Sabatier 10" slicer - 2018

If you want new toys, add any of the following in any order. None will do anything the above won't do, but that's not stopped many people from owning and loving them:

Richmond Artifex 6.75" nakiri - 2017
Sabatier Nogent 8" fish fillet knife - 2019
K-Sabatier 5" boning knife - 2018
K-Sabatier 8" carving knife - 2015

The knives below are either worthless or duplicates:

Richmond Artifex 7.5" santoku -2016
Wüsthof Ikon 3.5" paring knife - 2020
Wüsthof Ikon 6" slicing knife - 2020
Wüsthof Ikon 8" chef knife - 2021

You need something to sharpen with. Seems like you're leaning towards the EdgePro which is a good bit of kit. Don't use it though, so can't comment much on which one's to get.



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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:03 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:54 am
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Thanks so much for all of your input from the forum! It is greatly appreciated as knives are something I know very little about.

To be truthful I am not as great of a planner as it may appear, especially since I can be persuaded to change my mind rather easily. For instance now I've scrapped the idea of getting the Edge Pro and am going to instead commit myself to learning how to sharpen freehand.

All of your advice and feedback was most helpful as I intend to stretch my budget out by also limiting duplicate knives. Certainly getting a matching Nogent/Artifex paring knife is not necessary when a $5 Forschner can pretty much do the trick ... but a part of me loves seeing things that match. Is that weird?

BTW I do presently have a sharpening steel that came with an old block set of Henkels so it should possible for me to go a while before needing to splurge for the Idahome ceramic. Am sure it's going to take me a while to learn how to sharpen so I was planning to ease into all the new sharpening equipment.

Jeff, great advice about the santoku but now you made me want to add a Deba to the line up too! :-) Any thoughts on a Tojiro DP 210mm Western Deba? Am not sure how long it will take me to bring up Japanese knives again with the boss (to be honest I can probably survive for a decade with the Richmonds) but I was thinking a nakiri or santoku might be a nice "gateway knife" to show her how friendly/useful they can be in the kitchen.

Anyway want to see my revised list with your comments taken into consideration?

2013 - #1)Richmond Artifex 9.4" chef knife, #2)Victorinox Fibrox 10.25" bread knife, #3)Bester 1200 grit stone, #4)Universal stone holder/flattening stone/strop kit, #5)20x jeweler's loupe and #6)Deburring felt block

2014 - 1)Sabatier Nogent 6" slicer, #2)Sabatier Nogent 10" slicer and #3)Suehiro Rika 5,000 grit stone

(It is unfortunate that the Nogents will run out or I probably wouldn't even start building my collection this way. A part of me also wants the matching 10" Chef, 10" Slicer, 6" Slicer and 3" Parer just to have them all, but if you were to pick two, would these be the ones you'd pick? Obviously I do realize that having two chef knives is a bit redundant but I did want to see what carbon feels like.)

2015 - #1)K-Sabatier 10" chef knife, #2)K-Sabatier magnetic strip, #3)Mercer Cutlery Genesis 6" carving fork, #4)Richmond Artifex 6" utility knife and #5)Idahone 12" fine ceramic honing steel

2016 - #1)Angle Cube, #2)Gesshin 400 grit stone and #3)Richmond Artifex 6.75" nakiri

2017 - #1)Gesshin 8,000 grit stone and #2)Richmond Artifex 10.5" bread knife to replace the Fibrox one

2018 - 1)HandAmerican water-based spray diamond slurry/ boron paste for balsa strop and #2)Masamoto VG 7" santoku

Tentative knife collection as of today:
K-Sabatier 10" chef knife
Masamoto VG 7" santoku
Richmond Artifex 6" utility knife
Richmond Artifex 6.75" nakiri
Richmond Artifex 9.4" chef knife
Richmond Artifex 10.5" bread knife
Sabatier Nogent 6" slicer
Sabatier Nogent 10" slicer
Victorinox Fibrox 3.25" paring knife


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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:28 am 
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A "Western deba" is, at least as I understand it, a different beast than the classic Japanese, single-bevel deba. The single bevel just works better for all the cuts where you need to be either following the bones, spine, or skin as closely as you can.

A "sharpening steel" is something of a misnomer. The rods are more about re-aligning an edge (moving metal), than they are about sharpening (removing metal). Except for a few professional cooks that are prepping in a morning what a home cook might do in a year or two, I don't think many of the regulars here use rods/steels in their day-to-day edge maintenance of high-quality knives. You will hear of people "stropping" their knives, which accomplishes much of the same goal -- keeping the edge in good shape between trips to the stones. You can even strop on newsprint, without any fancy compounds.

On the stones, I'll defer to those with more experience with the ones that CKTG sells that I haven't tried myself -- if I were you, I'd ask for some specific advice, especially if you aren't going to be able to buy two stones to start. You won't need a coarse stone until you pooch an edge on one of your knives -- and then it will either be within a day or two that you order one, or you send the knife off to a pro to fix.

I'm not sure what a 6" slicer is going to give you, functionality wise, that a 10" slicer isn't going to do. What would you use a 6" slicer on? It seems sized for things not much bigger than a salami. I'm a home cook and, for me, anything in a "slicer" much shorter than 270 mm (10.5") isn't much of a slicer. I'd rather have a 210 mm petty than a 210 mm slicer, for example -- the petty is more versatile and can do nearly as good a job slicing.

Just to keep you thinking -- check out these magnetic racks -- http://www.lonestarartisans.com/media/m ... ife-racks/


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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Posts: 3394
Don't fear freehand sharpening either, it's really isn't that hard and is very satisfying. I was really nervous when I first started but after practicing with a few old knives I was surprised how quickly I was able to put a good edge on a knife. I still have a lot to learn with the nuances but I have no problem keeping my kitchen cutlery very sharp.



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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:29 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 13
Homeboy Chopper, I think you're going WAAAAAAAAAAY overboard on all these knives. I work in a professional kitchen and here's what you need - Awesome chef's knife, paring knife (maybe) and a bread knife if you need practice putting a better edge on your knives. I personally use my chef's knife (Just bought a Moritaka 240 that I am in love with) to cut bread. Even when I was using a cheap $30 Wusthof, I was still using that to cut bread. If you are breaking down whole animals, then you will also need a cleaver, a boning knife, and a filet knife if you're cutting down fish.

In the kitchen, I use my Chef's knife for 98 percent of my work. I use it for everything from breaking down jalepenos to wafer thin fine juliennes to dicing up all of my veggies, to slicing meat and fish. The most important thing is the edge you can put on it.

What you should really be focusing on is getting a great chef's knife and then getting things to sharpen it with. I have a 400, 2k, 5k, and 10k grit stones. Practice sharpening all of your crappy old knives to figure out what you're doing and then keep your chef's knife razor sharp. At the end of the day, it's the edge that does all of the work, so figuring out how to create and maintain a really nice edge is far and away the most important thing you can do.

What do you want to Jewler's loop for, btw? That keeps coming up and I'm confused.

P.S. You really need to teach your wife that sharp knives are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY safer than dull knives. A dull knife will F your world right up. You need to use way more force to cut things and you can't control where the knife goes - baaaaaaaad bad juju.

P.P.S Here are my list of stones,

400 - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/la400grst.html

2k - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/naao2kgrbr.html

5k - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/im10fist.html

10k - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suri50grst.html

I also have a DMT coarse diamond plate for flattening. CKTG is out of their stock, so here it is on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8C-Dia-Sharp ... one+coarse


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 Post subject: Re: Starting a new knife collection
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:43 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 13
Once last quick thing since I can't edit my post, to go along with teaching your wife about sharp knives being safer, what I should have said is that a very sharp knife with PROPER technique is how you keep knives safe. Here is a decent video of an Australian dude talking about it. Video starts with overview of knives, goes into general knife safety and then talks about proper technique. I have the video set to start when he is talking about knife safety. Cutting technique starts at 4:50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9s2hkahdg&t=4m10s


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