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 Post subject: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:45 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 am
Posts: 90
Looking for some stainless gyuto/chef knives and some paring/petty knives to replace some old, soft and dull knives in a "semi-public" kitchen. The kitchen is in a non-profit meeting house and I expect the knives to be abused although not intentionally. Plan on also buying some stones to sharpen the existing knives and keep the new knives sharp.

So I'm looking for four recommendations for stainless knives. :?:

Gyutos/chef knives and paring/petty knives under $50:
The Forschner Fibrox Chef knives and Victorinox paring knives seem to own this range. Are there any other stainless knives in this range that deserve to be considered?

Gyutos/chef knives and paring/petty knives between $50-$99 :
Richmond Artiflex
Tojiro DP Chef Knife
Fujiwara FKM Stainless Gyuto
What are the strengths and weaknesses of these knives?
Are there any other stainless knives in this range that deserve to be considered?


Gyutos/chef knives and paring/petty knives between $100-$150 :
Suisin Inox Gyuto
Hiromoto Stainless G-3 Gyuto
What are the strengths and weaknesses of these knives?
Are there any other stainless knives in this range that deserve to be considered? I didn't see to many stainless knives in this price range...


Gyutos/chef knives between $150-$199 :
Takayuki Grand Chef
Maruyoshi HD Gyuto
Masamoto VG

What are the strengths and weaknesses of these knives?
Are there any other stainless knives in this range that deserve to be considered?


What are the qualities that one can expect to see/feel as one moves between these price ranges.

First CKtg post!


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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:03 am 
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Petty's:

Fujiwara has Stainless Petty's for under $50:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe12.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe15.html

Tojiro DP:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todppakn90.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todppe12.html

Richmond Artifex:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar80pakn.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar15pe.html

But those are a bit more than the Forschners, but should hold their edges longer.

Under $100, those choices are very good. The Fujiwara SS series is nice and thin, has nice blade grinds and good handle F&F. The Tojiro DP is a bit thicker overall, nice grinds, OK handle F&F and heavier overall. The Artifex uses nicer steel than the Fujiwara and Tojiro, will take and hold a better edge. The grind is different and leaves a slightly thicker shoulder behind the edge, but is easy to thin out and remove, or leave the edge thicker for more durability. The Artifex has excellent F&F on the handle, spine and choil areas, where the other 2 generally need more work in those areas to smooth/break the sharp edges. No bolster on the Artifex, so that saves weight. I prefer the Artifex because it has better steel than the other two and I can easily play with thinning out the edge.

The $150 range choices you list are very highly regarded, a step above the Fujiwara and Tojiro, equal but different than the Artifex (Good quality, nicer F&F, nicer steels and grinds than the Fujiwara and Tojiro).

As you move up the price range, you will get better handle fit and finish, and sometimes better fit and finish on the spine and choil areas. Blade grinds can be excellent on lesser priced knives, but the blade finish may not be a pretty. Steel quality may be a touch higher on some of the more expensive knives (AEB-L, G3 and Masamoto's VG steel instead of VG-10 and Moly SS), but the Artifex has AEB-L for much less than the Grand Chef, which also uses AEB-L. The Damascus cladding adds to the price with debatable benefits (supposed to allow the core steel to be harder, the softer damascus cladding is supposed to help absorb shock to the blade).


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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Under $50 for a gyuto/chef your only real choice is the Forschner.....at least your only good choice as far as I can tell.

There are a lot of really good petty's under $50 though, as Taz pointed out.

The only other knife series I might add to your list is the Mac Superior line:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsukn.html

They'd be a good choice as well.

The Forschner Fibrox is a great community kitchen choice. They're tough, cheap, and decent knives.

Between your lists, you will notice better steel, better grinds, better F&F, etc. However, between your lists there isn't going to be a huge difference. Obviously the Fibrox handles are plastic and some of the higher end knives in your list have bolsters....but at the end of the day, they will all cut well.

The one thing that some of the knives will not be good at, though, is toughness and that's a major issue in my mind buying knives for a community setting. None of these knives are meant to pry open a can, or a million other things my family and friends do with knives as I watch in terror. Some will react very poorly to these things and you could end up with a chipped edge, broken tip, cracked handle.....that's why I still think the Fibrox are the best choice.



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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 am
Posts: 90
Thank you Tim and Adam,

Finding suitable knives for a community kitchen is a pretty interesting process. The further I get into it the more questions that arise. Hadn't considered that the petite women in the group would probably prefer a smaller (<8") knife than what I've been looking at... I also have a question regarding the size of the various petty/paring/utility knives and what the appropriate uses of the 120's, 150's and 165's are. Guess I'm used to the small knives for coring and peeling. What do people use the longer versions for?

I've pared the list down, and added a few, to come up with the following:

Gyuto/Chef/Santoku:
Forschner Fibrox Santoku $35: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fofisakn7.html
Forschner Fibrox 8" Chef's $30: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fofi8chkn.html
Fujiwara FKM Stainless Santoku 180mm $70: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmsa18.html
Fujiwara 180mm Gyuto $70 OOS: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fu18gy.html
Fujiwara FKM Stainless Gyuto 210mm $78: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy21.html
MAC Superior Santoku Knife 6.5" $75: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsu65insak.html
MAC Superior 8" Chef's Knife $90: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsu8inchkn.html
Suisin Inox Gyuto 210mm $120: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suisingyuto2.html

Paring/Petty/Utility:
Forschner Fibrox Paring Knives Set $13: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/paring-knives-set.html
Forschner Fibrox Paring Knife 3.25" $8: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fofipakn3.html
MAC Superior 4" Paring $40: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsu4insapa.html
MAC Superior 5" Utility Knife $40: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macknsu5inut.html
Fujiwara FKM Stainless Petty 120mm $40: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe12.html
Fujiwara FKM Stainless Petty 150mm $44: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe15.html
Richmond Artifex 80mm Paring $45: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar80pakn.html
Richmond Artifex 150mm Utility $50: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar15pe.html

What kind of steel does the Forschner Fibrox line use, I don't see it listed?
How do the Mac's compare to the Fuji's? I can't find any indicator of how hard the Steel is on these Mac's. What are they hardened to?
I'm really trying to talk myself into getting a Richmond Artifex paring knife just to have some exposure to the AEB-L steel. Might snag a 52100 version for myself while I'm at it.

Adam I hear you about the toughness issue!! I'm not so sure that the Forschner's are any tougher however they are fairly inexpensive so if they get trashed, and can't be fixed, it won't be to painful to replace. Wondering if the Mac and Fuji would be destroyed while I was out of the kitchen. I'm usually around for any major activity in the kitchen however there are days when I'm away...

Thank you both for your feedback. I still have questions but they seem like better questions.

Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:01 pm 
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You might not find a listed steel for the Fibrox....often times they use something that's not special, so no since listing it. Makers list the steel when it's a selling point....XCroM10VF (I made that up, but it's similar to what some cheap steels are labeled as) is not a selling point.

Fuji's will be better knives for a user....but maybe not for a community.

The Mac's are probably in the high 50's....58 or 59. However, I don't remember ever seeing a published number.

Good choices on the paring knives for yourself....playing with different steel types is fun.



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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:32 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 am
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A couple more questions about knives for a community kitchen...

Further paring down the choice:

Forschner Fibrox Santoku $35: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fofisakn7.html
MAC Superior 5" Utility Knife $40: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macknsu5inut.html
Asian Precision Granton Santoku $50: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/me1001k.html

If you could pick just one of these three knives, which would you choose and why?

Is there a stainless 150-180 Petty with some height, 31-36mm at the heel? Looking for a prep knife for small handed petite women.


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 Post subject: Re: Stainless knives for semi-public kitchen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:05 pm 
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For a 180mm petty with height, perhaps a 180mm gyuto would work:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpchkn18.html

There are others, but it seems the CKTG search is broken ATM.

Of those, I would still pick the Fibrox based on your description of use. It's the most rugged, forgiving knife and it's still a decent knife.



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