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 Post subject: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:00 pm
Posts: 60
Rather than spend eighty bucks on a DMT XXC or a hundred on an Atoma 140, can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't buy a Shapton Glass 120 at forty-five bucks instead? It seems it would work just fine as a flattener for my other stones, and I'm sure it would do well for chip repair also. There must be a reason why more people don't suggest this stone instead of recommending a diamond plate for these tasks, but I confess I can't think of one myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
Posts: 303
youd need some way to keep the glass 120 flat before using it to flatten anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:03 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 992
Nbles wrote:youd need some way to keep the glass 120 flat before using it to flatten anything else.



That's not really how it works. If you rub two stones together they will self level each other, probably causes excessive wear to the stone but works none the less.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4738
The biggest reason is the Atoma Plate will last three times as long, if not longer, than the Shapton GS.



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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 328
Location: NE
Mark H. wrote:Rather than spend eighty bucks on a DMT XXC or a hundred on an Atoma 140, can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't buy a Shapton Glass 120 at forty-five bucks instead? It seems it would work just fine as a flattener for my other stones, and I'm sure it would do well for chip repair also. There must be a reason why more people don't suggest this stone instead of recommending a diamond plate for these tasks, but I confess I can't think of one myself.


The product description mentions it is capable of flattening stones. I have never used the 120 GS. I have used other grits in the GS series and I have no doubt that GS would flatten stones. I don't think that a GS would work well as the dedicated flattener for several reasons (most have been mentioned above). First, I think an atoma would last longer than the 120 GS. They both have a finite lifespan but the GS is not very thick. If you have lots of stones to maintain or flatten frequently the GS may be exhausted prematurely. Another reason may be concerns of grit cross-contamination. 120 grit GS particles on another stone may affect the finish and/or refinement of the edge, preventing a complete and thorough transition to the next stone in the progression. Atoma plates don't need flattened. GS stones still dish and would have to be somewhat flat to flatten another stone (not contradicting Jason because he is right, but the GS won't effectively flatten if the GS is too dished and in need of repair. This is what he was referring to as excessive wear).

It would work well for chip repairs. Quick metal removal and dish resistant are good qualities for heavy grinding and chip/tip repairs.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:00 pm
Posts: 60
Thanks for the replies, guys. So as I understand it, the biggest drawback is that the Shapton will wear out much sooner than a diamond plate will. I had already thought about that, but in my case the stones I am flattening are much smaller than full size stones - I am using an Edge Pro - so I'll probably get a few years out of the Shapton 120. So far I've been using 120 grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper on a glass plate, but it doesn't take long for the stones to scrub off (or wear down) most of the abrasive on the paper.

On the cross-contamination issue, I would of course have to wash the stones thoroughly after flattening, but I do that now anyway. Besides, don't diamond particles come loose from plates, too? I'm not being argumentative here, I seriously want to know if that's the case, because it seems to me they must, even on Atomas.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 1438
Location: Raleigh, NC
They're good questions to ask.

The Atoma in particular and the DMT to a nearly equal extent, and even the nameless wonder to a great extent, are intended to flatten stones. Not only do they lose diamonds slowly, there is very minimal diamond to lose. While they will certainly wear down over time, it takes a nigh Herculean effort; a new plate can last years before the structure really starts to break down. The Shapton stone simply isn't intended to do that. It's supposed to release small quantities of product every time it's used. Using it so flatten I would be much more worried about contamination of high grit stones than the wearing issue.

Diamond plates, in the capacity of wearing and contaminating so minimally, are a boon to waterstone sharpening. In a recent thread Ken was talking about the traditional techniques to flatten stones; I'm just glad we have the plates to skip the three stone solution. Honestly, I would even take the Chinese diamond plate over the Shapton if the primary purpose is flattening.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:13 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 992
If you want to flatten with a stone I would recommend a Naniwa Omura 150. Will flatten everything from Shapton to kings and wears slowly. Excellent for sharpening carbon steels too.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:52 pm
Posts: 204
Smaller DMT Plate sized for edge pro about half price of large one. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dmt2x6diplfo.html

I'm not sure i like it on the device for knives, but I've been using one to flatten my other Edge pro Stones


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 Post subject: Re: Shapton Glass 120 used as a flattener?
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 851
That's what I use for flattening. Works great.

You can install it in the EP but you need to reef down on the screw to keep it in place. This can lead to deformation of the plastic which holds the plate so be careful.

Cheers,

Rick


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