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 Post subject: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:10 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:58 pm
Posts: 13
Hello Everyone,

I need to have 2 @ 240 Gyutos in the house. I have just ordered a Konosuke Ginsan 240 mm on Marks' (and many others) recommendation. Thank you all for this advice. I am very happy about this. However, I just received the supposed second knife I was going to pair the Konosuke with, a Kikuichi Warikomi Damascus, and I must say there are a few things that are not working for me once I have seen the knife in person. I am not crazy about the Yo handle, and the work around the choil and spine are pretty rough and not really finished. You can see filing edges and a slight divet/pockmark in the choil. I know this is easily sanded out, but I would have assumed it would have been better finished (esp at this price point). Bottom line, this is a lifetime purchase, I know these others are dear, but I think I want to trade up and get one of the three listed here:

Fujiwara Nashiji: I understand the possibility for brittleness with the high-hardened white #1, but I am pretty careful and am only using this at home on wood boards. There is a great feeling to this and the reviews have been quite stellar...

Sukenari ZPP189: Very beautiful and elegant Damascus and Stainless. Also hard, but I am patient and very focused on learning to sharpen (just got stones and a sink holder and leather strop, and have a Sabatiers and some Henckels to practice on)... Also stellar reviews...

Takayuki Damascus (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sata24wa.html): Also nice Damascus, Ginsan 3-silver core (so easy to care for).


Of these, the Fujiwara and the Sukenari are pulling me the most. Any thoughts?...

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

~Shea


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:27 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:32 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Cape Town , SA
Just a warning - ZDP 189 isn't the easiest steel to learn on, and at that price?

Also J knives are about the blade not aesthetics, some light wet dry sandpaper will sort out the the rough edges and you might love the knife thereafter, when I show my carbon Gyuto to friends they aren't impressed until they start cutting.
But then I'm not into " bling"


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:47 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 1195
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bling is a personal choice. If you gotta have a Damascus coating, buy a Damascus coated knife.

I'm very surprised to read you weren't pleased with a Kikuichi's finish. They're normally as good about that sort of thing as a any German maker.

The Fujiwara is going to be the best knife listed, but it's going to be the most demanding. Some say they chip, some don't. I think this has to do with the user's skills. If you knife skills are up to it, buy away.

Unless you are an experienced sharpener using some hard cutting waterstones, skip ZDP-189. That stuff is seriously hard to grind.


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:36 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:52 am
Posts: 415
RE: "I am not crazy about the Yo handle, and the work around
the choil and spine are pretty rough and not really finished.
You can see filing edges and a slight divet/pockmark in the
choil. I know this is easily sanded out, but I would have
assumed it would have been better finished (esp at this price
point)."


You may find the same "qualities" with the Fujiwara.

It roughly describes mine actually, but understand this is handmade with the bulk of the effort on the blade.
Aesthetics aside it is super and I look forward to using it daily.

I think you already know what to do but make sure your expectations are in accord with what you are getting.


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:56 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:58 pm
Posts: 13
Thank you for the responses, they are helpful.

At this point there is something I can't put my finger on what exactly about the Kikuichi that does not move me. The Fujiwara does. Quite a bit, actually. For the Fujiwara, the flaws are part of the intended aesthetic, and exude the makers hand and I actually really like this aspect of that knife. Everything flows for me in this one. In the Kikuichi, the blade is technically well made but I don't get any deeper pull from it: it's kind of like she is really beautiful and has a nice personality, but I know no matter how much work gets done in the relationship, we are only going to be friends. I want to marry the Fujiwara.

There are things I like about the Sukinari that are also very nice (so well finished), but I realize the mirror polish would bother me after a while. It's almost too shiny... That and trying to sharpen ZDP192 when I am learning is probably a bit much to take on at this point in my J knife journey.

I think I am going with the Fujiwara.

Thank you all again for your insights.

~Shea


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:40 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1351
What characteristics beyond damascus/bling are you looking for, or are you simply looking for something nice that is going to be completely different from your Kono? If it's the latter, I know Mark is going to have some Kato 240s coming in with custom handles that you may want to check out. The knife is very approachable and completely different than anything else you will have handled before.



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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4241
gladius wrote:
RE: "I am not crazy about the Yo handle, and the work around
the choil and spine are pretty rough and not really finished.
You can see filing edges and a slight divet/pockmark in the
choil. I know this is easily sanded out, but I would have
assumed it would have been better finished (esp at this price
point)."


You may find the same "qualities" with the Fujiwara.

It roughly describes mine actually, but understand this is handmade with the bulk of the effort on the blade.
Aesthetics aside it is super and I look forward to using it daily.

I think you already know what to do but make sure your expectations are in accord with what you are getting.

Gladius is right on point here. The Fujiwara, as good a knife as it is, does have some roughness in it's F&F. I had to sand the choil and spine as they were fairly sharp. The handle leaves a lot to be desired too. But these are minor things and I love that knife to death.



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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:58 pm
Posts: 13
ChipB wrote:What characteristics beyond damascus/bling are you looking for, or are you simply looking for something nice that is going to be completely different from your Kono? If it's the latter, I know Mark is going to have some Kato 240s coming in with custom handles that you may want to check out. The knife is very approachable and completely different than anything else you will have handled before.


Actually, I am not really fixed on any bling at all. The irony is that I am not really a bling kind of guy. I do like damascus, but it needs to be balanced with the feel of the knife for it to work for me. The thing I did not like in the Kiuichi was not the damascus, which was nice, it was the hammering part. It seemed a bit too bold and not diffused out enough to balance the damascus. Kind of like two people talking at the same time and not having a conversation.

Thank you for the Kato head's-up, but I have been thinking about the Fujiwara for a week now, and almost got that when I got the Kikuishi, so the Fujiwara is not being taken lightly. I still really love that knife after a week of comparison shopping of all knives. I think it is a done deal.

I appreciate the help/feedback, take care. This forum is really great.

~Shea


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2401
The Sukenari and T-F Nashiji are built to a very different aesthetic, as you know. The Sukenari is polished, highly refined, nice rounded choil/spine, great fit& finish. The Teruyasu is refined rustic with a lot more soul of the maker IMO. They're both fantastic knives, but very different.


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 Post subject: Re: Second 240 Gyuto advice/suggestions needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:51 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1351
OK, doubt you can go wrong with the TF. For what it's worth, I referring to the non-damascus Kato in 240 (not yet pictured ont he site) which will probably be in the $675-700 range not the $1K range of the damascus.



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