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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 am
Posts: 11
I don't mind the suggestions outside the budget thing, but buying a nakiri because I liked a gyuto from the same maker hasn't worked very well for me, so I'm reluctant to act on similar advice, especially when the HH is on sale for about half the price. My big worry with the HH series as I said is stiction on carrots and potatoes and such, but I like the thinness and weight (agile and precise). If the shinogi on the Fujiyama was a crisp bevel line (i.e. if I laid the knife on the stone, the scratches would stop precisely at the shinogi), I'd be more inclined toward it since I like tall primary bevels (built-in thinning without wild scuffs and scratches).

The Kohetsu might be a contender but the style does nothing for me personally. Still curious about the Gassan as well, and I don't mind branching out into bunkabocho territory if it comes with the right grind characteristics.


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2391
The Richmond AS Laser: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rilana.html might be worth a look. The are quite thin at the edge. It should glide through food very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 623
Hey Robert...

I'm assuming (maybe falsely, but I don't think so) that Fujiyama is pretty consistent in his grind's, the Nakiri being no exception.
I've heard that he is one of the best blacksmith's in Sakai. Take it or leave it...

However, Mark would know for sure about the grind.

I wouldn't attempt to thin my Gyuto, because I don't have the skill to maintain the Shinogi, I'd have to send it back to have the work done, or to a defacto sword sharpener
that is able to handle something like that.



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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
Uh oh... Desol's getting feisty again :P

I haven't used many Nakiri's(exactly 3) and just don't care for them. I'm of little use usually when it comes to nakiri recommendation, though I do like to spend other people's hard earned money...
So here we go, the tall height of a nakiri combined with a laser grind just don't normally play well with non-stick. I'm sure you are already aware of that point, but I like to hear myself talk some times. ;) I would think that the partial concave grind of a Takeda(second hand info, don't own one) would be about as non-stick as a laser is going to get. I would simply remove the kurouchi finish(if you haven't already) and continue to work the shoulders towards your preference.

Geez, I didn't even try spend any of your hard earned money... ooohhh wait, have one of the many professional sharpeners available here work the shoulders for you. There we go all is well again :D

by the way, Welcome to the community!


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 623
;) Eh, ask and thou shalt receive...



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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:19 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 am
Posts: 11
mark wrote:Uh oh... Desol's getting feisty again :P

I haven't used many Nakiri's(exactly 3) and just don't care for them. I'm of little use usually when it comes to nakiri recommendation, though I do like to spend other people's hard earned money...
So here we go, the tall height of a nakiri combined with a laser grind just don't normally play well with non-stick. I'm sure you are already aware of that point, but I like to hear myself talk some times. ;) I would think that the partial concave grind of a Takeda(second hand info, don't own one) would be about as non-stick as a laser is going to get. I would simply remove the kurouchi finish(if you haven't already) and continue to work the shoulders towards your preference.

Geez, I didn't even try spend any of your hard earned money... ooohhh wait, have one of the many professional sharpeners available here work the shoulders for you. There we go all is well again :D

by the way, Welcome to the community!

Thanks, and actually your advice is very reasonable. Given my location, it's probably best to do the work myself. I'm still in the market, but the more I use nakiri, the more I think they're usually optimized for leafy veg rather than dense roots, given the stiction characteristics in general. In a small kitchen I am inclined to think I should stay focused on smaller gyuto-like funayuki things for navigating around roots and the like, and focus my nakiri time on optimizing the ones I've got instead of endlessly hunting for the perfect laser nakiri. But I don't always want to be reasonable...


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
desol wrote:;) Eh, ask and thou shalt receive...
:lol: Fair enough. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:20 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 1183
Location: Raleigh, NC
I did a 50# bag of carrots with my Konosuke HH maybe two days ago happily. I've done fingerlings a few times with no ill effect, though not too many full sized potatoes. I might grab a few in the morning and report back my findings. For the price, the knife is appallingly good.

That said, if you don't like the grind and/or lack of finish on the HH, you're not going to like the HD, no matter how fantastic the handle or the sharpening. They're the same geometry.


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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:44 am 
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Nakiri Bocho isn't a leaf machine (I mean, it can be, but)...it's a small vegetable processor. If anything, the Gyuto, being longer would be better suited for heads of lettuce, cabbage and other larger vegetables no doubt, unless the cleaver is 180 I guess...or longer.

Nakiri/Usuba are basically the perfect small vege' processor/chopper.



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 Post subject: Re: Scalpel nakiri for feather-fingers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:20 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 am
Posts: 11
Most of the leafy veg I come across where I live (East Asia) is not in large heads like cabbage or iceberg lettuce, for which I agree a longer knife is better. Most are stalky and seem just the right size for a nakiri-type knife. I just think that a relatively tall blade is not ideal for stiction-prone stuff. My Itinomonn and previously my Akifusa Asai were rather poor at them unless doing fast chopping, which I 'm loath to do most of the time. When push cutting, the stiction gets bad enough with some that the bottom few mm of a raw carrot will just tear off. My Teruyasu did fair but not great on cucumber and was easily outclassed by my Takeda which lacked the stiction issues. If I move faster or cut with much more force, I can overcome the disadvantage, but I do not like to work that way, which is why I tried to emphasize that in my initial post.

The Konosuke HH is very charming, and I liked the blond horn ferrule in SteveG's video, but if it's going to have weak food release when doing slower push cuts, I'd be better off looking at other types of knife.

Sorry if I sound fickle!


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