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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:00 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 600
Salemj, I can certainly appreciate your comments on carbon and relaxation. I purposefully purchased an inexpensive carbon knife first, in order to figure out what care was needed without risking an expensive blade. Each time I acquire a new full-carbon knife (recently on my third), I start out babying it and being very careful and concerned about rust. As the reactivity settles down a bit and a patina forms, I stop worrying and just apply my normal routine of wiping periodically during use. As you have, I have found that "the knife can always handle it". There is something calming about having stainless cladding, but my full-carbon knives are certainly favorites, and the evolving patina across the whole blade makes them feel more alive to me.

And as a home cook I find edge retention to be among the least important factors in my knife use so far. Even white #1 holds an edge long enough for me, and gives me ample opportunities to tinker with the edge as the knife needs refreshing.


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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:08 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1343
I own a bunch of iron clad carbon knives. The core carbon steel is not what will react, it will be the iron cladding. Indeed, a carbon core doesn't require the babying that one might imagine, so much as a modicum of respect for the fact that it isn't stainless. Indeed, the only thing that is likely to oxidize (so long as you don't leave the blade wet for 30 mins) is the cladding which can be solved through forcing a patina, or a bit of extra care, during the first week of use.
In terms of sharpening, I own carbon, stainless, semi-stainless and PM-stainless. Given my inexperience as a sharpener and my correspondingly blunt methods, I can't discern the refinements in steel that many here can but, I don't find a hell of a lot of meaningful difference between any of them in terms of achieving a sharp edge. What I do find is that VG-10 doesn't need much in terms of progression to get to a very nice edge, W#2 needs a bit higher level of refinement but can't hold an 8K (or maybe even a 4k) edge for major prep work, SRS steel is pretty damn awesome in terms of taking and holding a refined edge.



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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:40 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:52 am
Posts: 411
RE: "...W#2 needs a bit higher level of refinement but can't
hold an 8K (or maybe even a 4k) edge for major prep work"


It seems like the heat treat, bevel angle, cutting technique and board
would have more to do with edge holding than level of polish.


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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:42 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1343
gladius wrote:[i]
It seems like the heat treat, bevel angle, cutting technique and board
would have more to do with edge holding than level of polish.



Would seem that way, but yet.....



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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:50 am
Posts: 99
Thank you all for your responses, advice and discussion. It was not ignored. In the end, I went with my gut, based on what I read in reviews and saw in videos and chose the Takamura R2. I wish there was a 240 version, but I think the 210 will be fine for me. I don't have a huge cutting board for my everyday prep, so the 210 might be better for me. I started using an edge-grain board I had in storage instead of my poly boards, and am looking at end-grain boards

I know I said I wanted a flatter profile, but I guess I didn't realize that in the Japanese world of blades, flat means f l a t on the board almost. I was saying flatter in comparison to a Wusthof Chef, which has lots of belly starting at the heel with a high tip, almost flat spine. Any of the J knives would be much flatter in that regard. I don't really chop in the traditional straight down sense, so a dead flat edge on the board isn't totally necessary to me as I introduce a bit of slicing in my motions.

Went with stainless for my Gyuto for peace of mind with my most used knife. I'm thinking a carbon 270-300mm slicer/carver type knife is in my future as I need a good long knife that will take a screaming edge to slice brisket that normally falls apart with my current knives. That will be a knife I use in lower frequency, so it's less likely I'll introduce a situation that would cause problems with carbon and it will need sharpening less often.

As far as getting carbon for it's ease of sharpening, I just don't know if I have the patience or desire to really put in the time to learn to freehand well. I sharpen because it's necessary and I like sharp knives, not because I really like doing it. I'm quite impressed by those who excel in it and enjoy it, and glad they do, but I just don't think it's going to be an enjoyable hobby for me. Honestly I've put significant effort in it already- watching dozen, maybe hundreds of videos on techniques, trying different grips and strokes, stances, etc and I think I've actually gotten worse than when I started. Edge retention might not be important to some, but I would rather have to sharpen less frequently and just plan on spending a little more time when I do, and now that I've got an Edge Pro I know I can do it with some level or consistency.

Thanks again

-Chris



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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 2397
Great choice Chris. I think you'll love that knife. The EP will bring your sharpening to an entirely new level - it really will :-).


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 Post subject: Re: First Jknife for sharpening challenged
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:50 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 298
Good choice smokie. I was watching some interviews with the Takamura guys and apparently their knife and some others were passed to gordon ramsay to try and he picked the takamura. I don't consider him an authority on knives however. You have a great knife there.


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