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 Post subject: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:24 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:54 am
Posts: 24
Okay I'm very certain about several characteristics I'm interested in and several I'm not. For one I'd really like a clad carbon knife - preferably with a Nishigi or similar finish or possibly hammered. I don't want to spend more than $25O on a Gyuto - considerably less if possible. I want 240mm Gyuto that is a workhorse that can handle nearly every task in the kitchen - in other words I don't want to have to pick up another knife unless I feel it necessary. I want a knife that is easy to sharpen, but holds an edge well. I'm also only interested in Wa handles.

I am also interested in purchasing a Petty and good general a slicer for proteins preferable no more than $125 each.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Is there a way to Filter out everything other than clad knives on CKTG instead of just cutting edge steel?


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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:36 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
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"Is there a way to Filter out everything other than clad knives on CKTG instead of just cutting edge steel?"

Not that I am aware of.


Restricting myself to the knives I have used:

The Anryu Hammered would be my favorite: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kaanasgy24.html

The Goko Wt#1, more robust than the Anryu, not quite as refined, also in theory Wt#1 would have the least edge retention of the knives on this list: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/gokogyuto240mm.html

The Kohetsu AS, the thinnest of the lot, so it may require more nurturing with some tasks, but it is probably the value per dollar leader on this list: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rikoaosu24gy.html


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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:28 am 
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TOM <> It took me too long to write this so others have chimed in echoing many of my thoughts, but here it was anyhow.

1st, I know of no way to filter that search.

2nd, Let me preface my recommendation by saying this loud & clear. Bear in mind this is not directed solely at you, “When I make a recommendation it is based off a long career in professional food service, the immense amount of knives & stones I own & use, the scores more I have used, and the opinions formed therefore. I do not work for CKTG. I have no vested interest in CKTG. I have never even spoken with the Proprietors of said business in person nor over the phone… though I look forward to the day. I do not have any fiduciary responsibilities for - nor relationships with - any knife makers, handle makers, stone makers, zero gravity makers, or any other related or non-related business that causes me any conflict of interest creating my suggestions. I REGULARLY suggest knives that I personally dislike, some I detest, because they are most appropriate for the case study. I am not a religious man, and there is no Holy Trinity of knives in my notebook that I spit out on rotate. I may recommend the same knife for you as I had many times before for others, but I had NOT recommended that very same knife many more times, as well.”

That said, here is the opinion of just one old man’s crazy banter.

Your parameters limit you from the go, but IMO, the Katsushige Anryu<--link is classic yet refined, hefty yet nimble, gorgeous yet unpretentious; it is one of my favorite lines on the site. This knife is a middle-weight that has some heft of which in concert with an impeccable grind intensifies its cutting power allowing it to fall through food effortlessly. It is a fun knife to use. Along with that benefit, it [weight] can cause fatigue if you're machine gunning it for extended periods of time; in a residential environment this trait might be moot. When you have this knife in hand, it feels like you have A KNIFE in hand. It has a hammered stainless-cladding over a Hitachi Blue#2 core that has been heat treated to a hardness in which gives good edge retention & potential, but still need be respected as she is undeniably hard steel.

Image

The next knife I think about strays from your tsuchime or nashiji cladding request, but it’s performance belies its $190 price tag. This Tanaka Sekiso<--link has a beautiful iron suminagashi cladding over the previously used Hitachi Blue#2 core that has been heat treated to a lower hardness in which will afford you a much more durable edge. It is still a respectable Hrc60 which takes a great edge & still offer very good edge retention in this knife’s example. This is one of those knives that performs far better than it looks like, and it already looks like a badass.

The one thing I take issue with on this knife is it’s typically taller than I prefer in my knives, but you have said little about what you like in & look for in a knife & furthermore, as most of these knives are hand made, they can vary wildly in height so you request what you like in the comment box. Bear in mind, this picture below has a custom handle.

Image

At the same price point & again w/o your preferred finishes, the Richmond Kohetsu <--link in Hitachi Blue Super steel core has a stainless kasumi cladding, instead. It has a high tip with a sweeping radius to the belly & spine, and I find this knife to work really well for racquet grip rock/glide cutting though it still pushes with a pinch more than adequately. Nice F&F, great steel – that is rather hard, perfect warhorse of a handle, and a great all-arounder. This picture below is of the 210.

Image

Pettys: I’m going to choose a 150mm as this an extremely versatile length when paired with a little height make an adaptable little weapon in the kitchen. Your finish requests I’m going to throw out the window as $125 is already difficult. Here’s a quick list with two knives coming from makers from above; not for the ludicrous novelty of a set, but because they work:


Slicer: I’m going to choose a 270mm as this is the most useable length in most scenarios. Your finish requests I’m going to throw out the window as $125 is already difficult. Here’s a no-frills affordable idea @$90 <--link that will most likely out perform any slicer you’ve ever utilized.

Good luck.



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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:52 am 
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"A clad carbon knife"

I read into that as "stainless clad"
I do so because almost every knife on the site is clad over a core steel of a different type. The exception being Honyaki, which shatter the budget.

You allude to characteristics you like and don't like but don't mention many of them in the post. Forgive me if my assumption falls off target.

There are several outstanding selections you could make. First I would say, the Goko W#1 series. The knife is an outstanding value, HRC 60-61 is very forgiving to White steel, I find my example of this knife stays very sharp for a length of time that exceeds my expectations of White steel quality, that said, carbon steel is a very narrow and difficult to perceive field; so perhaps the fact that I notice it stays sharp does actually say something.. It has great height, and a good push cutting profile. The stainless cladding features a nashiji finish.
The petty is just as good as the gyuto, I have found. Nice and stout, good for a multitude of tasks.

Another knife series that would fall under-budget is the Richmond Kohetsu. I don't have hands on experience, but I hear good things.

I can also speak now for Anryu in B#2 hammered. Great knife, thinner than the Goko, the one that I got seems so far to have been ground perfectly. Although the knife is thinner than your typical "workhorse" I have found no edge retention issues, with stropping the blade stays as sharp as it ever was.

+1 to Mel on the suji, a little low on the budget, I think.
I can't really think of anything else right this second. I will reply again with more if I do, or any parameters are updated.



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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:12 am 
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If you save a little on your gyuto or suji maybe you can push your budget a little on the petty.

The best deal on a petty on the site to me. Fujiwara Nashiji 150mm Petty http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara4.html
White #1 in stainless clad, this knife ROCKS!



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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 600
I can only offer further comment about the Goko W#1, which, though I tend to hedge on it for some people's requests does match your primary criterion: "I want 240mm Gyuto that is a workhorse that can handle nearly every task in the kitchen". It sharpens up easily--as easy as any knife I have encountered--and I'll agree here with Dan that it seems to hold an edge reasonable well, certainly well enough for cooking in a residential setting. The edge comes back very quickly with stropping so I do not find I need to do full a sharpening of it terribly often.

As others have already said, it is a beefy knife, and it is my perception that several other knives in your price range, such as the Anryu, will provide slightly easier cutting on a wide range of ingredients. But the Goko's steel and geometry is relatively forgiving of abuse (we are still talking about a HRC ~60 Japanese knife, but relative to others), and as Mel says of the Anryu, this also has the weight behind the edge to power through a lot of prep work with deceptive ease (again, in a home situation where fatigue is not an issue). If I have a problem with the Goko it is that it attacks so many ingredients with buttery smoothness that when I run into something it doesn't like, despite its being incredibly sharp, the event is that much more surprising. This is why I have described it in the past as temperamental: it will handle just about any task, but sometimes the grind interferes with the ease one might expect from the edge alone. This tendency is slowly being remedied with a little thinning of the knife's shoulders, trading better cutting performance for slightly more fragility, but I do think there is a little to be done in this direction while remaining true to the knife's spirit and not trying to turn it into something it isn't.

If you like the nashiji style finish, or if saving the money on the gyuto would let you afford something elsewhere that was important to you, I do think the Goko is a good knife for what you have requested, but as cedarhouse has noted it is important to keep in mind what it is and isn't. It is a bit rough around the edges (not to the same standard as the Anryu, so I am informed), and there are a number of lighter knives that would be suitable for "nearly every task in the kitchen" if that would be your preference. You will probably be using the gyuto a lot so it might not make sense to skimp there if the Anryu or something else closer to $250 appeals, but for the price and your requirements I would put the Goko forward as a strong contender.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:54 am
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Thank you very much for everyone's recommendations and your assumptions have all been right on the mark. I am just a home cook and I'll be coming from Forschner Fibrox knives so frankly any of these recommendations be jumping from a Honda to a Lamborghini.

When I say I know what I like and dislike that may be a bit over stated. I know I like the idea of semi-stainless, I like Wa handles as I've used J knives with them in a family members kitchen several times. I prefer knives that are semi-stainless as they seem to be a little more forgiving if I'm not a fast at cleaning and drying then 100% carbon. The truth is I think I'd likely worry more than necessary about carbon, because I'm very good about keeping my knives clean and dry. Then again I have an adult son who is not quite as thoughtful, but I plan on making the Forschners more accessible in hopes of keeping him from using my J knives.

Even before starting this thread I've been leaning heavily toward the Goko recommended, my one hesitation has been one of the videos on CKTG mentions it being a bit tall. I've wondered if that tallness would make it a bit unwieldy.

I have to admit this is a petty reason, but now that I've seen the Anryu Hammered Gyuto 240mm I'm leaning a bit toward it for the aesthetics.

I think a 150mm Petty is perfect, but as mentioned above I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of 100% carbon steel and sort of think I'd rather go 100% SS.

I think the no frills slicer suggested is also perfect.

One more thing I for got to mention. I'm going to have to learn how to sharpen and I've been looking at buying a Beston 500, Bester 1200, and a Arashiyama 6000, a deburring block, a sink bridge and some type of block for flattening. I'm a little hesitant as someone on an other board mentioned that the Beston and Besters need to soak a long time, but that they give good feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:32 pm 
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For the convenience of splash-n-go and just that they are a very good starter set that you won't out grow I'd consider http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro3pcset.html.

As far as the stones your looking at I'd get the Arashiyama 1k instead of the Bester 1k. It will work well with the 6k and they both can be used as splash-n-go.



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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:41 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
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Knife height is fairly subjective. I don't even think it has a lot to do with hand size, assuming the knife is not so short as to present a problem. I think people just have different preferences for hand position for different tasks. I personally prefer to err on the tall side while Mel has a very specific range. So as to the height issue with the Goko, that is quite subjective. If you want to see crazy tall check out the Takedas :).

As far as stones, I have not used the Beston/Bester combo, but I recently replaced some stones which did require soaking for a number of splash and go and quick soaking stones and it is a nice feature. I love the Shapton Pros and Glass stones. The Pros have a nicer feel and there is more stone but the glass stones seem to cut a bit quicker (this could be psychosomatic, the swarf is SO visible on those white stones). I also have the Arashiyama 6k and it too is a wonderful stone. I have been tempted to try the 1k just to see how it compares.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad Knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 600
No worries preferring the Anryu's appearance: that is a valid reason even if not a performance-oriented one. I will say that in my opinion the Goko looks better in person, a lot higher class, than comes across in most photos. My blade has a few grinding marks left on it, so it is definitely on the side of wabi sabi aesthetics, but it is a serious-looking tool. I do not find it to be hugely tall in use.

For stones I use the Arashiyama 1k and Suehiro Rika 5k and I like both of them. The Arashiyama seems to work best after about 5-8 minutes of soaking, so I am not sure it would be my pick for a true splash-and-go. But it doesn't require a long soak time.


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