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 Post subject: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 3
1. OK, I have searched to the end of the internet in my quest for new knives, and numerous roads lead back to this forum. I have spent months reading through various threads, reviews, and anything else I could find, just to be as confused as when I started. I’ve visited various stores in Germany because I thought I would go that route, but I decided to go another route. Finally, I just said enough is enough, and came up with my list. Oh, and a friend of mine is in the same boat and he’s waiting for me to complete the research journey.

I’m not a chef, just a beat around the kitchen person. I also process my own deer, so maybe there can be a few suggestions there. I’m tired of my worthless selection of knives, so that’s what started my journey. Feel free to dissuade me from any of my decisions/choices.

I do plan on sharpening my own knives with and Edge Pro system. I just don’t have the time or patience to free hand it. Please fire away and I’m open to all suggestions.


Here’s what I came up with. I will probably not buy everything right off, but sometimes I just can’t wait.

MAC Pro 9.5” Chef
MAC Pro 3.25” Pairing
MAC Pro 6” Utility
MAC Pro 6” Boning

I understand that the Tojiros are entry level knives, but I probably won’t use these particular knives as much.

Tojiro DP 240mm sujihiki
Tojiro DP Bread ITK
Tojiro DP 210mm western deba

2. I will be corresponding with CKTG, and searching this forum, about the Edge Pro sharpening system. Any comments?

3. Also, how do you store your knives? I don’t want them just banging around in a drawer and I’m not too crazy about a big block sitting on the counter.

4. Steak knives. I want a nice set that will stand up to banging around on a plate. Obviously money is an issue, but something unique, like this http://www.newwestknifeworks.com/produc ... t-set/3229.

5. If someone wanted to buy Henckles, which series would one buy. I have looked at the Twin Cermax and the Miyabi 7000MC. Love the feel of both, but not willing to put that kind of cash in to them.

Sorry for all the questions, but I’m sure I will come up with more.


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2872
Location: CT
I would skip the Macs completely and go with other brands. The Macs are often overpriced and have lesser quality steel. If you add those up (4 Macs, 3 Tojiro's), you are around $800. You can do much better for that chunk of money!! Also note, the Tojiro's can't be shipped outside the US.

Tojiro bread knife is awesome, get one!! No questions about that one, works well for things other than bread, too! Or the Mac if you are outside the US.

This boning knife; I've tried the Honesuki for deer and it doesn't work as well as I would like. A rounded tip more traditional knife works better:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpbokn15.html

Or a Hankotsu:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hankotsuknives.html

The Honesuki is designed to break down chickens. I have the Tojiro DP Honesuki and honestly haven't used it in several years.

I would go with a longer suji, 270mm at least if not 300mm.
Fujiwara FKM or FKH 270mm for around $90:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmsu27.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara.html

A 150mm Petty is basically a Utility knife:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/higi15pe.html

Tojiro 90mm Petty/Paring Knife:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todppakn90.html

Or this Fujiwara; they can't ship Tojiro's outside the US:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara.html

So with these choices, we are under $400!!

For the Gyuto, there are lots of good options!

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/higykn24.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/histg3gy211.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/konosukehd1.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohdwa24.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/laser.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/wagyuto.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ic24gy.html

All of these would probably perform much better than the Mac, and are around the same price or less!

Which brings up the last knife. The Western Deba. This is a double beveled, big, bulky, heavy knife. OK if it's what you want, but some find it's almost too heavy? With all of the above knives, you are still under your $800 mark. But again, can't ship Tojiro's outside the US.

I would get a couple Japanese Knives, like a nice 240mm Gyuto and a 150mm Petty, and then go from there to the bread knife (may be able to use on the deer to slice it down as well in place of the Suji), boning knife, smaller paring knife, Western Deba, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:23 pm
Posts: 205
Keep it simple, Grasshopper. All of the Richmond Knives offerings are superior to many of the knives you mention, and are quite affordable. Rather than focusing on a set, I would start with the most basic knife, a Richmond Laser 240mm gyuto, as well as a basic set of sharpening stones, honing rod, and leather strops. If the Richmond Laser is more money than you want to spend, go with the Richmond Artifex 210mm gyuto with saya.

For the Richmond Knives, go to http://www.chefknivestogo.com/richmondknives.html

For a basic set of sharpening stones, go to http://www.chefknivestogo.com/3pcstoneset.html

For strops, go to http://www.chefknivestogo.com/haamstkit.html



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Zen in the Art of Knife Sharpening
“If one really wants to be master of an art, technical knowledge of it is not enough. One has to transcend technique so that the art becomes an ‘artless art’ growing out of the Unconscious.” Eugen Herrigel
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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 473
Got a budget you are sticking to?

I rarely say this, but don't spend $1000 on knives and stuff. Buy one good knife first, and then add to it.

I just realized this forum does not have a "which knife should I buy" questionnaire. That is crazy, this forum needs it more than any other!

I'm on it.



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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Posts: 3768
Location: USA... mostly.
PUGS <> All Wicked's recos are AEB-L... ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:29 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:23 pm
Posts: 205
Its true that for beginners, and for almost everyone else, AEB-L in a Richmond Laser is ideal. Of course, if money is no object, and you have $1,000.00 for a knife, I recommend the Mizuno Tanrenjo Honyaki 240mm Wa-Gyuto in White #2 or Blue #2. I love all four of my Mizuno Tanrenjo gyutos. Interestingly, however, my Richmond Laser has become my Go To knife.



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WickedSharp
Zen in the Art of Knife Sharpening
“If one really wants to be master of an art, technical knowledge of it is not enough. One has to transcend technique so that the art becomes an ‘artless art’ growing out of the Unconscious.” Eugen Herrigel
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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:45 pm
Posts: 657
Believe it or not I have got the Richmond addict 1 yes I said 1 tuned up so perfect it's been my go to knive for months, but in this crazy thing we call a world I actually can say it depends on what I am doing that determines my go to knife 98% of the time it is some sort of Richmond the rest is my wasabi, haslinger, ikon, nogent, 1905 f dicks if I am breaking down big things or my carbons when I am slicing rare beef that still has blood in it to increase my patina level on a certain knife. Hopefully with time permitting I will be breaking in my 52100 addict, I haven't had time to start a patina on it yet so it has seen limited use, and I must not forget my Richmond cleaver I aeb-l when that comes out the wife knows to back up I am in full slicing and dicing mode basically what I am saying I have several go to knives just depends on what I am doing and I would bet 98% of the people on this forum are the same way. One of the reason I love this forum over the others is the lack or less lack their of is knife snobbery this is a place where unless it says RR gusto grip and orange handles were all cool in some sort of way a lot of diversity. Constructive conversations, unlimited help whiteout made to feel like a dum ass and I am very proud of are senior members and founders on that part I used to cringe on one certain forum when a newbie asked a question because someone's ego would have a smart butt comment here it hasn't happened yet and when it does I have a button and permission for that. Peace jmbullman



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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for all the great inputs. More to think about, just when I thought the journey was coming to an end.

With the Richmond Laser knives, how flexible are they. I don't really know if I want flex. I think I want a stiffer knife, but I could be wrong. Is this steel easy to keep sharp?

The western deba was going to be used for heavy duty butchering. It was a thought, but I might be on the wrong path. If one were breaking down chickens, cutting through some other bone, what would you guys recommend? Clever?

Sharpening, I would like to go with a complete kit and not just stones. I have a lot of other things that need sharpening attention. That's why I was looking at the EP kits.

Again, thanks and I will look at all your recommendations.


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2872
Location: CT
The AEB-L isn't too bad to sharpen; its a very fine grained steel and kinda sharpens like carbon steels do. Much easier than say CPM154! I dunno how flexible the Laser is, haven't gotten to play with one yet.

A Honesuki or Garasuki (for larger birds) are made for breaking down poultry, but not necessarily hacking through bones. A Deba is designed for breaking down whole fish, but again, not hacking. A Deba can take the head off of a fish with proper technique (place heel of knife in between the vertebrate and press down on the back of the knife), but it will chip badly if you just hack away at something. A Deba is not designed for breaking down chicken, although some people use one with success. A meat cleaver will work for bones if it's designed correctly. I wouldn't cut through bones if I could help it with a Japanese knife unless it's A) the correct knife for that task and B) the correct technique is used! Most traditional Japanese knives aren't designed for western style butchering. The Hankotsu should work ok for the Venison for boning them out, but a Western style/European style boning may work better. What does work awesome for butchering is a good slicer or long gyuto; really makes short work of steaking out! A smaller J knife also works well for trimming and stuff. It's just the bones that are kinda odd to deal with using Japanese knives.

For the cleavers, it's easy to get confused. The nakiri looks like a short cleaver, but it's a thin veggie knife. Many of the bigger Chinese style cleavers are thin slicing cleavers, as opposed to the big/thicker meat cleavers, designed for butchery, so just make sure you get the correct style cleaver!!

I haven't use an Edge Pro, but I do free hand with stones and I enjoy that! The 5 pc set is a great way to go and then add in a finer finishing stone and you should be all set!!


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Guy Question and Answer Session
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:45 pm
Posts: 657
The laser as a decent amount of flex not to much and not too little just rite! Please dont ask me to measure the amout of flex this knife has against another I got that question on time. It's hard to hold the measuring tape and bend 2 knifes at the same time. Believe it or not tax I was actually asked that once can you believe that. O well. Peace my bro, jmbullman. And your rite MUCH easier than cpm154!



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Nubatamas rule the stone world! The freehander
The most electrifying show stopping man in knife sharpening today!
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