It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:25 pm



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 2 of 3 [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:56 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:58 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Norwich, England
Knife Fanatic wrote:Really Depends on the steel IMO,

Some steels take and hold 8k very well. They are usually very hard steels with a fine grain. (HAP 40, M390, high hardness White #1, AS, etc)

Some steels take 8k very well but need a little honing to keep in line (White #2, Blue #2, AEB-L, 52100, etc)

Some steels CAN take 8k but not hold. (Some stainless steels and lower hardness steels)


Shaun you mentioned it depends a lot on the steel as to whether it will hold the edge great bit of info there was wondering where you would say VG10 lies with being able to keep the edge off an 8k?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:27 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 1591
IMO VG-10 falls into the 2k to 4k category for a better lasting edge. VG-10 ranks as a medium quality steel among high-end steels. The main reason is that it has over 13% chromium but is not a powdered metal. It holds a good edge and gets sharp, although this is dependant on the heat treat of the maker.

If you are using these edges on a poly board doing prep, 2k is what you want. I've done it time and time again, that's the edge that holds the longest. If you have a wooden board then you can venture to 4k with no edge loss. Any more than that though and you'll sacrifice edge life.

Here's the thing about powdered metals: Most of the exotic steels that are powdered metals (M390, S35, ZDP189, ELMAX, etc.) wouldn't even be possible without making them powdered first. Well, it would be possible to make the steel, but if you made a knife with it the knife would break in large chips or just shatter, it wouldn't be a good tool. There are some steels that get remade as powdered metals (154cm to CPM154, etc) and become even better.

So this being said, you are hard pressed to find non-powdered stainless steels that will meaningfully take 8k. AEB-L is one of them because it has a lower carbon content, and some of the ultra-pure Swedish steels and Japanese steels can as well.

VG-10 is a very good knife steel IMO, it just isn't as good as some of the super steels we have today. Please take this with a grain of salt: The fact is, if you are using VG-10 you are already ahead of most of the game. Most people don't even own VG-10 at home. And just because VG-10 isn't best at high refinement doesn't mean you can't take it there. I've made VG-10 sharp enough to whittle hairs by stropping on newspaper, so it will take some fun edges. :D



_________________
Shaun Fernandez

With great sharpness comes great responsibility.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:58 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Norwich, England
Awesome input as always Shaun really feel educated. I've put a 10k edge on the knife just doesn't keep the edge for any time at all really ( use bamboo chopping board ). Next time I sharpen it up will try see how I can get it just going to 3k I haven't got a 4k stone yet ( but just an excuse to buy one :) ).


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:24 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:45 am
Posts: 1470
I looked this thread over again and realized that something was missing in this discussion. No not the mention of the Nubatama 8k or 10k stones. This is to be expected.

What was missing was a discussion of 8k strops!

8000 grit is a 2 micron strop. (6k is 3 microns. ) This could include 2 micron CBN, 2 micron Boron Carbide and 2 micron diamond (mono and poly) as well as other alternatives like diamond films in this range. All of these have one thing in common. Not only are they not 'splash and go', but just 'go'. You just strop against the blade and go back to using it. Easy. Fast. And yes you can even use these compounds IF they are in a water soluble base ON sharpening stones, both natural and synthetic for improved results. A 1.5 micron strop is a 12k strop.

Why the blind spot? In other environments, people maintain their knives without stones at all! Shocking. They simply strop with compounds to maintain their edges. Typically they use a 4 micron or 4k strop or something in that range for maintaining an edge and go finer or coarser depending on their needs. You can finish using an 8k strop in less time that it takes to wet a stone.

Food for thought!

---
Ken



_________________
My Facebook Page
Ken'sCorner
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:48 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 1342
Location: Raleigh, NC
Hah, Ken's totally right. Really shouldn't discount stropping when considering edge refinement at this level.

As far as skipping Nubatamas, I wish it wasn't so. All of my experience with them leads me to think they're better at giving that ideal customized edge instead of the default Shapton edge. Would that I had more of them to evaluate. Give me a few years of monthly stone allocations, eh?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:37 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:52 am
Posts: 523
I came to the same observations/conclusions and stopped at 1k stone, stropped on chromium oxide then leather until I achieved a bit of refinement yet maintain bite. Some steels took better to more refinement than others.

I purchased a Coticule and now from 1k, I finish with the Coticule and find I get smooth refinement with the bite and it is easier to get to and the edges last longer and "feel" better going through product - it is a subtle but noticeable thing. It is not as keen or as sharp or as hard an edge - difficult to describe, perhaps duller - as ceramic or diamond spay but the edge is silky yet with bite and works on a wider range of steel.

I imagine the edge from a Japanese Natural Fine Finish stone may be comparable. I am only speculating as I have not yet purchased one, but if so I am a fan of natural stone. If anyone has experience with Coticule and Japanese Naturals, please comment.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:56 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2925
Location: CT
I was going to suggest stropping! I will often finish on a Rika 5K or Hakka J Nat and then strop a few times on bare leather. Polishes up the edge a touch more, but still leave nice tooth. Using a compound on the leather will also work, but the rough side of bare leather works great for me!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 680
gladius wrote:I purchased a Coticule and now from 1k, I finish with the Coticule and find I get smooth refinement with the bite and it is easier to get to and the edges last longer and "feel" better going through product - it is a subtle but noticeable thing. It is not as keen or as sharp or as hard an edge - difficult to describe, perhaps duller - as ceramic or diamond spay but the edge is silky yet with bite and works on a wider range of steel.


Coticule is versatile and grit rating can't be applied. They have varying grit, different vein's, etc. I use med-slurry with few passes usually for kitchen knives(fine, toothy). Spessartite garnets have an approx HRC of 72-76 (after a few conversions), which makes them able to cut even the hardest steels pretty easily, and the scratches remain shallow due to the garnet action. 8-) Hitachi steel and Coticule are made for each other! :D

Freshly cut Coticule:
Image



_________________
http://nbthk-ab.org/index.htm
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 82
+1 on Ken's comments about the Meara. Regardless of the steel or stones/progression, I find that, for me, the Meara leaves a "smoothed tooth" that I find effective and long-lasting.
Tom


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:38 pm
Posts: 232
Tpbrewton wrote:+1 on Ken's comments about the Meara. Regardless of the steel or stones/progression, I find that, for me, the Meara leaves a "smoothed tooth" that I find effective and long-lasting.
Tom


+1 on the meara. i received one from Ken about a month ago, and i have to say it is really awesome. toothy, yet refined.

pat



_________________
there is never enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it over.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3 [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DarkStar and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred