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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:03 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 95
In looking through the knife list again my main concerns now are not that I won't get a "sharp" knife or even something that is sub-par at the price point but something that might discolor or patina. As I mentioned in my first post I don't really like the patina look and don't necessarily want the extra work to keep that from happening aside from of course cleaning the knife. I always rinse, clean and dry my knives within 30min tops of using them but I'm a bit concerned about patina still given some of the comments I have read in the review section about the Kohetsu Aogami.

This applies to the Kikuichi as well which is what is mainly keeping the MAC Pro around in my mind.

As an additional point, I do prefer a firmer blade so to speak. Keeping in mind that this will be my one gyuto that will be used for basically all kitchen tasks (minus chopping a whole chicken or something). Everything from slicing tomato to onions to apples to squashes and bone-less meats will be done by this one knife.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:05 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
Posts: 1152
If the TKC is in your price point, but you really value stainless properties, then you may want to look at Haruyuki/Akifusa (check out the detailed review video on the 210MM at the cktg store) or a RyuSen Blazen. Both are clad powder steels.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 297
Alternatively wait a bit for the Kohetsu SLD which is quite patina resistant. The 240 gyuto is not out yet but the crosshatch pattern on the knife is pretty cool.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:46 pm 
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@Solid - after reviewing this thread and your comments, I'll still reiterate my recommendation for the following full stainless knives. I think you should stick w/full stainless.

Fujiwara FKM 240 if you want something that performs close to the Masamoto VG and the Takayuki Grand Chef for a lot less money. If you are OK with spending more, the Masamoto and Takayuki I first recommended would be my top two picks for you. Review my comments on those knives. The Fujiwara will be a bit closer to the Grand Chef in weight and nimbleness (if that's a word :-)), than the Masamoto VG.

Review the Quick Look videos carefully for these 3 knives. You'll see differences in the edge profile curve. The Grand Chef has the most belly or curve in the forward 1/3 of the blade, the Masamoto is probably the flattest overal edge profile, and the Fujiwara is in between these two. If you like to rock chop a lot, the Grand Chef is a bit closer at the tip area to a Western chef's knife. If you like to push/pull glide cut and also chop more straight up and down and occasionally rock chop, especially on smaller product like green onions, medium sized carrots, etc. the Masamoto VG or Fujiwara FKM might be better profile choices.

The Grand Chef has the best steel, Fujiwara FKM and Masamoto VG have pretty similar performing steel IMO. Masamoto will be the heaviest, stiffest, beefiest knife of these three. They're all very good knives and very good choices. It just depends on which characteristics best fit you and your needs.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:52 pm 
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SolidSnake03 wrote:Care to elaborate on the much better? Or was that one of the ones listed by chefsknivestogo? Again i question because im genuinely curious. Also, i could stretch the budget to like $210 or so, the Kikuchi isnt totally out, basically i just didnt want to go to $250 or something but a little wiggle is ok


The TKC is not going to be available until September I was told so I would scratch that one off the list.



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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:21 pm 
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The same steel as the Fujiwara FKM and you'll have money left over for a that petty. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkm24wa.html



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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 95
SteveG wrote:@Solid - after reviewing this thread and your comments, I'll still reiterate my recommendation for the following full stainless knives. I think you should stick w/full stainless.

Fujiwara FKM 240 if you want something that performs close to the Masamoto VG and the Takayuki Grand Chef for a lot less money. If you are OK with spending more, the Masamoto and Takayuki I first recommended would be my top two picks for you. Review my comments on those knives. The Fujiwara will be a bit closer to the Grand Chef in weight and nimbleness (if that's a word :-)), than the Masamoto VG.

Review the Quick Look videos carefully for these 3 knives. You'll see differences in the edge profile curve. The Grand Chef has the most belly or curve in the forward 1/3 of the blade, the Masamoto is probably the flattest overal edge profile, and the Fujiwara is in between these two. If you like to rock chop a lot, the Grand Chef is a bit closer at the tip area to a Western chef's knife. If you like to push/pull glide cut and also chop more straight up and down and occasionally rock chop, especially on smaller product like green onions, medium sized carrots, etc. the Masamoto VG or Fujiwara FKM might be better profile choices.

The Grand Chef has the best steel, Fujiwara FKM and Masamoto VG have pretty similar performing steel IMO. Masamoto will be the heaviest, stiffest, beefiest knife of these three. They're all very good knives and very good choices. It just depends on which characteristics best fit you and your needs.


This is very helpful actually! Out of this i can surmise that the Masamoto is the best choice of these three based on your desciption/comparison. Im not a big rocking chop guy so the profile does seem much better on the Masamoto than the Gran Chef.

It looks like right now since the Kikuchi is out due to that long of a wait im mostly down to the

Masamoto Vg
Richmond Kohetsu Aogomi Super
?

Any others that would be a worthy consideration or thoughts between these two? Never tried a wa type before so kinda interested in that one...


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 95
Would you consider the Artifax in the same class as those other two however? Bearing in mind though that i will be learning to hand sharpen with this knife....so less might be more?


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:40 pm 
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The Kohetsu is going to patina along the cutting edge as you've stated you don't like so that would leave the Masamoto VG standing alone.

The Atifex is made of very good steel but is very thick behind the edge and wedges badly OOTB. It needs a lot of thinning to be a good cutter, and just learning to sharpen I would avoid this knife. Although, If cutting performance is not an issue to start with the Artifex is a good and inexpencive knife to practice your sharping and thinning skills on. It is a great knife once it has been thinned properly.

Artifex OOTB................................................ and after thinning by Tim Johnson AKA Taz
Image Image


Last edited by Jeff B on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 298
SolidSnake03 wrote:In looking through the knife list again my main concerns now are not that I won't get a "sharp" knife or even something that is sub-par at the price point but something that might discolor or patina.


Even if it's out of stock for a while, and not a viable option for the OP now, I'd characterize patina of a carbon blade as VERY different from the rather subtle and very gradual color change that might happen with a semi-stainless blade like the TKC or Konosuke HD. I think the color change of a semi-stainless could be managed, if deemed necessary, with a very occasional cleaning with Flitz or something like that.


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