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 Post subject: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 203
Anybody with a knowledge of each have an opinion and thoughts?
I have a HAP40 210mm gyuto and was wondering about a steel for a new 240mm and 150 petty.

Thanks

Douglas


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:54 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1650
There was some discussion of this question here:

richmond-r-2-lasers-t6225-10.html?hilit=zknives#wrapheader


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 203
I saw that but not being a metallurgist, the zknives link is beyond my understanding.
I was hoping someone who has used both could comment on real world edge retention etc.

Thanks

Douglas


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3994
Location: Kentucky
Hap40 is "it" when it comes to edge retention right now...But...that doesn't mean there aren't some other really good steels out there like R2.



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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:25 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:00 am
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Sharp Knives wrote:I saw that but not being a metallurgist, the zknives link is beyond my understanding.
I was hoping someone who has used both could comment on real world edge retention etc.

Thanks

Douglas



I have not used both, only r2 and other PM steels. One thing I can say with PM steel is once the edge is gone it really is gone, the edge won't roll unless you really want it to, if it does good luck getting it straight with a hone, not enough surface area. Versus a carbon steel where the edge might roll a easier but can be brought back with a hone.

For prep I enjoy using a carbon steel as it can blow through ingredients and just be touched up on a ceramic hone when need be. During service I enjoy a PM knife, I don't have to worry about the edge rolling at all and it will last me through the busiest of services without needing a hone or touchup.

I think it's all about choosing the right knife for the task. I used to love PM steels, until I didn't have enough time to sharpen it when it needed it.

Hope this makes sense and helps you out a bit


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:53 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 81
I would think either of these is going to take a fair deal more time to bring back whence the edge is rolled a bit, unless you really stay on top of them. This is part of the reason I find myself using my white #1 goko more and more; I tend to only have 10 minutes here and there at work to touch up and it comes back stupid fast.


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:16 am 
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Expect HAP40 to hold an edge longer and take a steeper edge but have more chipping tendencies as well. R2 is full on stainless while HAP40 is semi-stain.

All depends on how rough you are going to be on the blade and whatnot, but I think sharpening-wise they should be about the same. Although the HAP40 is at a higher hardness, it doesn't contain the vanadium and chromium of the R2.

I find that Vanadium, followed by Chromium, are pretty much the 2 most common elements that make sharpening harder. Although Tungsten can increase wear resistance (HAP40 has a lot of it) it does not increase wear resistance on the stones as much as Vanadium does. Of course, high enough hardness and almost nothing will cut it, so this is sometimes dependant on what kind of stones you are using as well because a super hard knife will literally just skate across your stones. (elemental composition aside)

Hopefully someone here will get 2 Richmond knives with these steels to do a side-by-side comparison. 2 very good steels regardless.



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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 692
HAP40:
C: 1.27-1.37
W: 5.60-6.50
V: 2.80-3.30
Cr: 3.70-4.70
Mo: 4.60-5.40
Co: 7.50-8.50

R2:
C: 1.25-1.45
V: 1.80-2.20
Cr: 14.00-16.00
Mo: 2.30-3.30
Mn: 0.40

Of course, that is only one part of the equation.

In real life, barring any major surgery and with a thin edge, I have found sharpening HAP40 to not be much different from Aogami Super.

Also, I have not found HAP40 reactivity to be an issue beyond a slight gray patina.


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:24 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 12:22 am
Posts: 101
I know nothing about HAP40, but the Mr. Itou R2 knives not only hold an edge seemingly forever, they are among the easiest to sharpen blades out there.


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 Post subject: Re: HAP40 vs R2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:24 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
They're both really good steels. The kohetsu HAP40 blew me away when I used it during my home use tests. I've never tried anything that held an edge better so far. ZDP189 and M390 are in the same ballpark but I still think HAP40 holds an edge better. There is some re-activity but it's pretty minimal. You need to get the Cr content up to around 15% for good stain resistance which R2 has.



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