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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:23 am 
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"Ken and Mark...with all due respect we deserve more information."

Well let's start with Mark on this point. He doesn't know. You could beat him up and torture him and you would not get any info on this from him.

Next is me. The same thing applies. So arguing about what is deserved is not the issue. We simply don't know. Period.

Now do you know who makes Masamoto knives? Aritsugu knives? and many other knives? No. You do know or could know that many different craftsmen make these knives as a sort of collective, farmed out to individual unknown knifemakers. Here it is ONE knifemaker, so it is a FAR more consistent product.. It is HIS wish to remain annonymous. There is NOTHING I can do about this. Similarly in addition to the steel used the details of his heat treatment processes are a trade secret as well, not only for his black steel knives but for his Shirogami (white steel) and probably his blue steel knives too.. This is quite common among Japanese craftsmen.

If you think swordmakers told the public how they made the tamahagane for their swords, or even the source of the fuels for their furnace, they didn't. The reasoning is simple. People would more easily copy their work, undersell them and put them out of business. I see this all the time here and in Japan. Honestly I can't blame him at all.

I can say that black steel is ~ 3x more expensive than white or blue steel, that it does develop a patina, sharpens easily and yet has excellent edge retention. I don't get to sharpen it often as it seldom needs sharpening.

The forging process requires higher amounts of heat than white or blue steel. It has been tested at 64 HRC Rockwell hardness.

That's pretty much all I can say.

---
Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:24 am 
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Here's another review of the ryoba by Rob Babcock:

"By: Rob Babcock
SF,SD
Now that I’ve had my Nubatama for over a year I thought I might post some impressions of it. This is an incredible knife! Mine came sharpened (by a sword polisher in Japan); I’m not sure if this is standard for Nubatama knives or just mine. But I will say it’s the first knife I’ve ever found that I don’t think I could get sharper!



The geometry is spot on,with a long flat spot. The blade is incredibly thin for being laminated and with a handle it tips the scale at five ounces...for a 240mm! That’s pretty light.



I have no idea what "Black Steel" is or what sorcery is involved in its’ forging but the stuff is incredible. The edge is amazing and the edge retention is astounding. To this day I’ve only honed and stropped it,never once put it back on the stones. After a month of use it would still shave. The only knife I’ve seen with edge retention like this is the Richmond Ultimatum in M390 steel.



Granted,this knife is terrifyingly expensive,but if I won the powerball I’d buy several more. Again,expensive but very worth the money. If you feel like treating yourself to one very special knife,this is one to put on your short-list."



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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:05 am 
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"
"Photographically shooting it against a bright light would yield just a dark outline of the blade."

You mean like this great shot Ken? :D
konosuke-fujiyama-blue-2-gyuto-and-sharpening-t5250-10.html"

Yes exactly. Pardon the OT discussion of photography for the moment, which isn't the topic of the thread. In your photo, the outline is present only as a silhouette. You have no detail of the surface at all and from the silhouette, you can't tell if the shot is skewed relative to the camera.

When the surface is front-lit, the level of surface detail is present Compare the complete absence of surface detail in the lightbulb picture to the level of surface detail and profile of the Nubatama picture.

You see this same problem if you take a portrait picture of someone standing in front of a window with daylight coming in. The camera reads the average light level of the scene and adjusts accordingly causing the person to only be a silhouette with no surface detail. To some extent you can spot meter and use a flash to fill in with some front lighting to balance the scene and partially recover the shot digitally by shifting gray levels (light dark adjusting) although if it is too far off, the level of detail will not be recoverable as it will be outside the range of the number of bits per pixel of the original image. Mathematically this is a bit shifting operation.

Image

Compare the two cropped images - out of focus silhouette vs front lit with no shadows shot in a light tent focused at 10x magnification to a precise surface focus. The nubatama photo was spot metered on the blade rather than the entire scene correctly setting the exposure level with a diffuse lighting source.

Also note the complete absence of any depth of field in the silhouette picture.

---
Ken


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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:10 pm
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desol wrote:The problem with these knives is that they are so expensive, that they're essentially inaccessible?


The different ways people view price or value has always interested me.

On one hand, we have a thread about people owning a half dozen gyutos. Not one word about the total investment.

But, put all that money into a single knife, well, that is "so expensive, that they're essentially inaccessible".

The car guys have the same discussion - would you rather have a collection of great cars or one incredible car? To each their own.


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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:22 pm 
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MOWG <> memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155 <--- Rob Babcock has spoken about them here on the Forum, as well as on other Forums. I have coversed w/him about them via PM albeit a year or two ago, and I'm sure he'd correspond with you, as well.

DOUG <> Interesting perspective. I always preferred the opportunity to try more styles rather than gamble on one - all for the same expenditure.

I honestly was always one to say, at my income level, I'd never buy a knife at that price point, but as my journey through gyutos for the end-all-be-all has run out of lower price point options & my acquisitions have seemingly become more and more expensive - with commensurate results mind you, I was absolutely committed to buying this. <--link I watched it for a couple weeks, went to sleep ready to click the button the next day, next day 'twas, as expected, sold-out.

I hear a "240" & "270" are coming, but now the dimensionsal statistics are the issue. The last one was 230x48.5; that's my perfect 230. I'd much rather prefer a 250x51 though, and I really want the knife to be perfectly in line with my parameters before dropping that kinda coin on something that is just not perfect. Beggars can't be choosers, but is that kinda expenditure really "beggars" territory.?! :oops: Everyone here knows how much I can't stand tall knives; the 270 looks really tall & the 240 looks smaller than the last 240. :| I'll just wait & pray for:
    #1) The stats...Image
    #2) That CKTG doesn't desecrate them with some bling bling... :lol:
    #3) No one buys it before me... :|



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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:06 pm
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No matter what Mel, I love reading your posts man!


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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:45 pm 
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TOUFAS <> Image



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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
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So the knife is unique in that is entirely made by a single person. It's more reasonable to accept the high price knowing that. I'm sure the knives are a labor of love for both the creator and you guys the importers.

What do you not like about tall knives Melampus? I am pondering getting a taller knife because I like to push cut. My knife skills are pretty lackluster compared to my boss. He can fine dice with a blunted stamped steel knife...


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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:54 pm 
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dougmc wrote:
desol wrote:The problem with these knives is that they are so expensive, that they're essentially inaccessible?


The different ways people view price or value has always interested me.

On one hand, we have a thread about people owning a half dozen gyutos. Not one word about the total investment.

But, put all that money into a single knife, well, that is "so expensive, that they're essentially inaccessible".

The car guys have the same discussion - would you rather have a collection of great cars or one incredible car? To each their own.



Doug, thanks for your analysis on my post and I agree, but the post was more aimed with the intent of, "I'd like to see Nubatama knives reach more people, because I think they deserve it!"



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 Post subject: Re: Nubatama 'Richmond' knife pictures
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
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A catchy nick name could be black diamond steel. It comments on the color, hardness, and price point while adding the skier symbol for "this is not for beginners." I understand confusion could arise from it not being made of diamond, but thats never stopped consumers in the past, gatorade isn't made of alligator juice.


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