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 Post subject: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:34 pm
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So I own a Murata Buho Nakiri that I sharpen everyday on a King 1000 grit waterstone. Often I can get it to a very fine edge, capable of shaving hair. However, I find it loses it's edge within maybe 20 uses at work. I also walk to work, carrying it in my knife roll, and sometimes find the edge diminished by the time I get to work, before even using it. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or am storing it incorrectly. This is also my first carbon steel knife, so I'm curious as to whether it's reactivity could be harming the edge somehow. I'm moderately diligent about wiping it down after use, but I'm still pretty green regarding the whole thing. Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:49 pm 
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TED <> If it dulls in your roll, the edge may not be protected & blunting on other hard objects... only you know that.

Sharpening everyday on a 1k is eating a lot of steel. No problem if you're eating your edge at work, but you really shouldn't be. I would suggest daily stropping on your 1k, instead; even employing newsprint to finish.

Another factor is total included angle. If you're sharpening at 10 Per Side with no microbevel, you're not going to see much retention. Try a more obtuse bevel or employ a microbevel. His Blue#1 does not exhibit anything special in regards to edge retention, but it's better than Germans'.



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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:34 pm
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This would be the first I've attempted stropping, and all I've seen of it so far is the Knife Sharpening for Noobies video. Is there a specific compound I should use for this situation, and where could I get it, either online or in person? I'm also assuming that you mean for me to wrap the stone in newsprint and apply compound.

Regarding the angle, I generally go for about a 30 degree angle, no microbevel. The angle is something I've had to adjust for that very reason, but I'm still having the same problem.

E: Looking closer, I see I can get a number of compounds directly from CK2G, so now the question is moreso which one.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:20 pm 
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Yeah, 1K is too coarse for every day sharpening. Pick up a Rika 5K or another 3-6K stone for final touch ups and strop on that. Or get a piece of leather and some buffing compound at a hardware store and try to strop on that. Cheapest way to try out stropping w/o getting into the expensive compounds. I find that the 1K leaves a honking burr; are you sure you are fully removing the burr and then making sure you have a truly sharp edge? Sounds to me like a wire edge or burr rolling over on you; the roll may be misaligning the burr as you walk or something? Maybe get a protective cardboard sleeve for it? Carbon steel edges will be reduced when the steel reacts to foods; it's minor, but still very present. It will loose that fresh sharp edge quickly if you cut thru a lot of acidic foods and let them react for a long time period with the steel. What boards are you cutting on? Poly boards tend to kill edges quickly, too.

30 degree per side or inclusive?


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:31 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:34 pm
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I'm quite sure I'm removing the burr completely, but it's possible that I'm not thorough enough in ensuring that. I'm cutting on plastic boards at work, there's a couple (Epicurean, I think) that seem really hard and I avoid cutting on. I end up using my knife on a lot of highly acidic foods (lemons, tomatoes) but I usually wipe it down right after.

If I understand correctly, I'm going for 30 degrees per side. I'm not sure if that's too steep or not. Good to hear that I can at least try out stropping on the cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:38 am 
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Touching up the knife with a fine ceramic rod is a quick and easy way to bring back the edge over and over again. Once it stops working I would second the use of a little finer stone, maybe the green brick to give you a little finer edge. Toothy, lower grit edges fail more quickly than finer refined edges. So refining your edge a little more should help you with better edge life.

15 per side so 30 inclusive.



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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:39 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
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if you are sharpening at 30 degrees per side u would have an inclusive angle of 60 degrees!!! that's more like axe or hatchet territory... most german made knives are around 20 dps most j knives are closer to 15 giving you a 30 degree inclusive angle... if you are indeed going at your nakiri at 30 degrees per side its no doubt you find the sharpness diminishing more and more quickly as you are thickening the edge the more you sharpen... there are lots of threads and videos around here that talk about the importance of thinning as you sharpen, I would suggest you do some research on the topic and come back to us with your results.. hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:45 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:34 pm
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cheffiec wrote:if you are sharpening at 30 degrees per side u would have an inclusive angle of 60 degrees!!! that's more like axe or hatchet territory... most german made knives are around 20 dps most j knives are closer to 15 giving you a 30 degree inclusive angle... if you are indeed going at your nakiri at 30 degrees per side its no doubt you find the sharpness diminishing more and more quickly as you are thickening the edge the more you sharpen... there are lots of threads and videos around here that talk about the importance of thinning as you sharpen, I would suggest you do some research on the topic and come back to us with your results.. hope this helps


Alright, might sound silly but I'm going to pick up a protractor tomorrow and figure out what I've been doing, along with doing that research. If it's that extreme I'm guessing my 30 degree estimate is wrong, but if it's right then damn I need to change that ASAP.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:57 pm 
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If your interested in compound try out then new Boron Carbide Formulations available here. Depending on which stone you get i would get a slightly finer compound.

4k stone , 8k compound
6-8k stone 16k compound

Boron Carbide is cost effective if your not dealing with any high carbide steels. I use mine on kangaroo , but nanocloth is another high quality substrate.

In regards to stones id be looking at two. Say the 2k speckled Nubatama , and finish off with something like the 6kUme. Then you will be well set up for some 1u (16,000grit) Boron Carbide on your choice of substrate.



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 Post subject: Re: Nakiri Losing Its Edge?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
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I'd like to play devil's advocate here and say that a 1k stone is NOT too abrraisive for daily sharpening, if you really do need to go to that grit or prefer that amount of bite. Be careful of forming a big gigantic bur each time though. It will unneccisarily waste a lot of steel, but I did that for 3-4 years on my chefs knife and its still got lots of life left in it.

Lesson I learned is to minimize steel loss to attain that edge again, and there is no quick way to do that. The only way is to dive head first into research, try things, learn from your mistakes.

And get a knife guard/saya for in your roll.


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