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 Post subject: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7887
Location: Madison Wisconsin
I got these stones today and tried them out. I thought I could try some new stones at a low cost. These have to be the worst stones I have ever used. Neither of them cut at all. I'm not trying to be offensive but why would you sell these? I know your site says only new/unused items can be returned but I'm feeling ripped off.



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
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Ehhh, what stone's we talking about?



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Location: USA... mostly.
Yeah... this I gotta hear.



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Jeremy,

I'll help you. You bought an Amakusa natural and a Takashima Koppa for a total of $79.45. I didn't recommend those stones to you, we just got your order and shipped them (this is common). As far as I can tell you didn't take advantage of this forum to ask questions either (also common).

So, let's start at the beginning and find out what are your use habits and what you're sharpening. Then we can figure out what would be best for you. I suggest you do this on the front end of your transactions in the future instead of "trying some new stones at low cost" and rolling the dice that they will be good fits for you.

Did you know these are Japanese Natural stones?
What stones do you use now?
I assume you free hand sharpen?
What are you sharpening, kitchen knives, woodworking tools, straight razors?
How long have you sharpened?
What steels are being sharpened?
Did you use any mud generators on the stones before you sharpened with them? (Slurry plate or negura).
Was low price the only criteria you used when you selected these?

Once I know a little more I should be able to help.



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Oh yeah.....buying inexpensive Japanese natural stone's is a really big crap shoot without knowledge and recommendation of what you're buying.



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Location: CT
The Amakusa stone is around 800-1000 grit or so. It does cut, but cuts slower than synthetics and starts working a Kasumi finish as it refines a bit with the mud. Coarser J Nats are often slower and I use it if I am striving for a nice kasumi finish and working with all J nats. For me, it doesn't come out of the stone box very often, but when it does, it does cut well for me and works at removing steel. You are using these stones wet with water, right????

The Takashima Koppa is a fine grit stone, mid to hardish range I think, often used to finish off an already sharp edge or to polish a Kasumi finish after working your way up the stones and refining the finish. It works great when combined with a DMT 1200 slurry stone, but it is a slow final polishing stone, like 6-8K or so, maybe finer? It will not sharpen a blade quickly, but can give a nice bit of refinement to the edge or a nice Kasumi polish.

Both are Natural Stones and work differently on different blades. The natural stones are a good bit slower than synthetic stones, and tend to leave a different hazier finish to the bevel and have a different scratch pattern to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
He wrote me back and asked that I converse by email. So, I won't post his stuff. But my work is my own. Here is what I wrote except I edited it once and added a little before I posted here:

Ok,

So read what Tim Johnson wrote to you about the 2 stones you purchased first. I agree with what he told you.

Naturals are almost always slow cutters. Not 100 percent but the Amakusa works better on easy to cut carbon steels. It's a hard stone and I usually reserve this stone for carbon steel knives. You can generate mud on this stone by lapping it with a dmt xxc or something similar and leave the mud on the stone when you're done lapping it. That will help a great deal when using the stone. I'm personally not a big fan of lower grit naturals. I think synthetics like the beston 500 would be a better choice.

The Takamura is a high grit finisher. It's hard and does not generate mud easily. Without mud your edges will skate over the stone and nothing will happen. You can generate a slurry with this: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dmtsmdiplfor.html
It's actually a really nice stone and puts a nice hazy finish on your edge and works quite well once you get a good bit of mud working on the surface. I like this one a lot. Really good for kitchen knives as a finisher.

(I offered him a refund too if he doesn't like them)



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
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I love it when someone puts on a blindfold and jumps off a cliff and then complains about the fall.



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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:26 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
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+1 to jeff,, I bought my amakusa as my first jnat with a junshyonoma, at first I was unimpressed with the amakusa and then I learned how it worked... needs some help to build up mud, don't plan on using it to set a bevel, but instead use it to build a natural edge after you set it with a lower grit stone. I happen to really like to take a knife up to 1 or 2 k synthetic finish and then go back to the amakusa and work my way up. especially fond of this on carbons, the blue steels in particular seem to like it..


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 Post subject: Re: Feeling ripped off.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:08 pm
Posts: 210
Just wondering but if the Amakusa is good on carbon steels, how does it work on tools? Thinking woodworking tools and random stuff in the garage that needs to be sharpened here and there?


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