It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:47 am



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 3 of 3 [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 280
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Thanks, Steve. The aspects of the Fujiyama series that you cite are precisely what attracted me to the knife in the first place, although I will say that most people seem to suggest that they are in fact ultra-thin behind the edge, and for a significant portion of the edge! (I realize this is different than your comment about the spine.) This makes me think they are true lasers, and may even have particularly delicate tips (more so than the HDs, perhaps?), despite the thicker spines. However, it sounds like the Takeda and the Kono are really two different animals in these respects (obviously, they are too different animals in many respects, but I thought they might be more similar in terms of the weight, grind, stiffness and "laser" performance, which is why I want to consider them both.)

My other major consideration is the Masakaga Koishi series. I'm slowly realizing, however, that the height and finish of this knife, while very, very attractive, may not actually be what I want at home. (I have small hands - read: like a shorter height - and like to be able to easily rinse and dry blade with a quick wipe, and the hammered finish might actually feel a little tedious after a while.) Thus the interest in the Takeda. And perhaps in some other thinner knives. Clad is not necessary, but I am interested in trying a "blue" carbon (which tend to be clad).

I know there is not a perfect, single solution here, especially since this knife is a fun gift, and not for a single, specific purpose. My eyes and ears are still open for other suggestions, too, although I will emphasize that I want the knife to feel a bit "special" (for a special occasion) rather than just being awesome on the board!



_________________
~Joe
Ownership experience: Konosuke, Masamoto, Tojiro, Wusthof, Henckels, etc.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:44 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2391
If there ever was a special occasion knife - it's a Konosuke Fujiyama series (any flavor). The Fujiyama's are indeed very thin behind the edge. I wouldn't say the tips are any more delicate than the HD, HH, etc.

Also FWIW, the Koishi finish is very matte and has more noticeable friction when wiping down, versus a Fujiyama. Takeda will probably be in between the other two in that particular respect.

One nice thing about the Koishi is the stainless cladding, even though it's a KU finish. The Koishi's look like bad ass blades that are all business in person versus the more elegant Fuyiyama's. They just have different aesthetics.

I would for sure go with a 240 Fujiyama and not the 210, the 210 is undersized and quite small for a Gyuto. Even the 240 is a bit undersized, though I really like that 232-235 range for a home environment, where space is sometimes an issue.

You're choosing between some great knives - it's the little details and your preferences that make the difference here, as you are describing very well.

My personal pick would be between the Kono and the Koishi.

IMO the Koishi exudes more of the blacksmith's handiwork, while the Fujiyama is more elegant and refined. Both have great F&F & nice handles. Remember the Kono Fujiyama's are an all reactive blade, no KU finish, no stainless.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 280
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Thanks for your additional comments, Steve. Any sense on when the Konos might be in again, and what kind of handles they may have?

I admit to being just a little intimidated by the carbon cladding on the Kono. I take very good care of my knives, but I don't have any that are not at least semi-stainless. My sense from everyone is that, as long as I use the knife regularly and keep it dry, I shouldn't have to worry. However, being a home cook (and busy with other responsibilities), it is possible that the knife will go a couple days without use. I expect this won't accelerate problems like rust, as long as the knife is used with this amount of frequency. Any thoughts? (Others have chimed in on this, too, although I suspect most of them are actually professional chefs that use the knives under different circumstances). I will also say that my ideal length is just under 230 for a home knife, I think—my 210 Kono feels like an over-sized petty, and my 240 (really, 232) Kono HD is usually a good size, but the near-handle balance point (it has an ebony handle) makes the tip feel a little wayward at times in small spaces or on high counters. Any comments on the Koishi in regards to length? How does a 210 versus 240 feel? Also, I've seen Mark recommend Kanahiro knives as similar to the Masakage but with a smoother finish. How would you compare these? Again, they still look a little tall at the heel...They also look a little "bland" for a special occasion. :)



_________________
~Joe
Ownership experience: Konosuke, Masamoto, Tojiro, Wusthof, Henckels, etc.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:50 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2391
I have a number of carbon or stainless clad carbon knives and I don't oil them at all, unless I pull one from my regular rotation and store it back in it's box or a Saya. Unless you're in a really humid/oceanside environment, oiling shouldn't be needed unless you won't use them for a while (a week or more?).

The Kono Fujiyama's with the Ebony handles that I've handled usually balance just about perfectly at a pinch grip point (or pretty close).

The Koishi 210 and 240 are both a little length oversized. The 240 is a more substantial knife than the 210. Personally, I think the Koishi 210 and 240 blade heights are perfectly in a sweet spot range for their size. For most 210's, I favor 45-47mm and on 240's I like 48-50mm at the heel. These are my preferences. My hands are on the smallish side of medium FWIW.

I don't know on the Kono arrivals or handle changes. As I understand it, Mark always has a large order backlog with Konosuke and they send him what they send him. He doesn't always know what's arriving. If I'm wrong on that someone will likely correct me.

If the Kono Fujiyama is the one that trips your trigger, they're worth the wait - they really are :-).


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
Posts: 332
Like Steve has said the care of the Kono Fuji or the Koishi is the same as any blade. Wipe it after you use it, wash and dry it. I find the carbon cladding on the Kono Fuji a little less reactive than other carbon knives. After I wash and dry with a towel I let the knife air dry on the counter or board before I put it in a drawer storage slot. My Kono has been stored fora couple of weeks and I have not had issues with corrosion. I do not find oiling the blade necessary for storage. The same care applies to the SS clad Koishi as the blade core is carbon AS. The Kono is a special knife. The current ebony handle is a compliment to the overall quality of the knife. Balance point with the ebony handle is right were the tang meets the blade. The 240 Kono blade measures 230 mm and is a great performing blade for most tasks.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 pm
Posts: 280
Location: NY, NY; New Haven, CT
Thanks, Bikeman—your comments are particularly helpful. I do work/research abroad for weeks at a time once or twice a year (and sometimes bring a knife with me!). I would plan to oil the knife in such cases – too nice to subject it to checked baggage, unfortunately – but the details of your experience still put me at ease in term of longer periods of inactivity. As much as I love to use my knives as much as possible, I don't get to carry them around in knife rolls when I have to travel for work reasons. :)

In fact, I think that lots of people are in a position like me: I have turned some of my friends onto knives, but I know we have questions that aren't answered by the usual chef. As terrific as the tone and participation is on forums, taking care of carbon must vary dramatically on the frequency of use, and not just based on "wiping down"—this is something that I think most chefs cannot speak to with much accuracy because they either use their knives frequently or store them. Perhaps I've missed some threads on this topic, but I think it is worth having a separate thread on "this" type of carbon use; i.e., careful and frequent, but with unexpected periods of draught due to business travel, weekends away, or the occasional week away from the kitchen. As a home chef, I cook as often as I can, but I'm often cooking for 2-4 people, and – let's face it - many meals don't require all that much knife work! It doesn't mean we love our knives or cooking less than everyone else, but just that our jobs don't allow us to use them with so much frequency as people in the business.



_________________
~Joe
Ownership experience: Konosuke, Masamoto, Tojiro, Wusthof, Henckels, etc.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:57 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2391
I think a lot of people new to carbon steel knives tend to over think their care a bit. I know that I did when first starting out. Unless you (and your knives) reside in a really humid or oceanic (salt water/air) type environment, you can put a light coat of mineral oil/camelia oil on them during periods of non-use and they'll be just fine. Don't use plant based oils, as they will eventually turn rancid. Just make sure they're thoroughly dry before putting them away after each use. Little water droplets can elude your scrutiny and cause issues.

If you let a patina develop on the reactive parts of the blade, either naturally or forced, this thin layer of oxidation will help protect the steel during use and during storage.

I also think you can apply these concepts to all reactive carbon steel. Some steels/knives will require more immediate care/wiping/drying during use to minimize corrosion issues, some can go longer with moisture on the blade before corrosion starts. Part of the experience is finding out, either by accident or on purpose, how reactive a particular knife is or is not. If a bit of rust develops, just clean it off with some Barkeeper's Friend and a no-scratch scrubby. It's normally not a big deal.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Richmond Laser or Masakage Koishi?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:02 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2391
I also use George's Club House Wax: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/202106 ... 4--oz.aspx occasionally on my cutting boards. It also works great if you want something more tacky to protect your steel during longer term storage. It's good stuff, Maynard. I also use it to lube the shaft on my blender blades after dis-assembly and cleaning.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 3 of 3 [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred