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 Post subject: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7894
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Looking at a Guyto style knife...thin profile.
Among the $ $70-100 range...210mm-240mm. More interested in quality steel and blade geometry than fancy handles or bells and whistles. Function over form. I am impressed with the profile of the 52100 Kramer knives made for Sur La Table but WAY too expensive. I like Tojiro. Your Richmond knives look very good. I can't say I find V10 to be what it is marketed to be (Shun, etc...). I like the thin profile of Gyuto for fish and softer veggies and a chef for basic chopping/dicing, maybe a Deba for veggies? Highest end knife in our kitchen is a Henkels 8" Professional. Also just took a lesson on using my Japanese waterstones from a local sharpener. Here are some knives I looked at. What are your comments:
Richmond GT240
Artifex 240 M390
Goto ST240AC
Riichmond SAB 52100

Am willing to wait for new or out of stock knives.
Randy



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
GT240 - nice handle and fairly thin blade. Ok steel, same as Fujiwara FKM series
m390 - I seem to remember Mark(aka Dave) Richmond saying he wasn't likely to restock these, but they are still listed on the site so I could be wrong.
Goko Damascus - Very thin spine, doesn't thin out at the edge like some lasers so it's actually fairly stiff for how thin it is, many don't like the handle as there is a step between the handle and (plastic)ferrule. I actually like the feel of the handle and have found the chestnut doesn't become slick when wet which is a major bonus. (only knife from this group I personally own)
Sab 52100 - new to the site so not too much usage info out there, but looks like it should be a fantastic knife, classic Sabatier profile, nice distal taper, only carbon steel blade in the group, functional/pedestrian handle

All of these will be thin and light compared to a Henkel 8". However, none come close to amount of belly on the Kramer chef knife(I'm guessing you primarily rock cut?).

Out of this group I would recommend the Sab 51200 for you(where is BDL when you need him to articulate the benefits of a Sab ;)). It's not as light as some in group, but I think the profile alone makes it the winner if you do in fact prefer to rock cut. The tip is high enough you can rock chop most of your tall ingredients without digging the tip into the board, while the long flat spot makes rocking feel much more agile on shorter ingredients than German knives could ever dream of being. If you happen to push cut, I would be surprised if you were looking at a Kramer as a push cutter, the long flat spot in the Sab profile is second to none.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2609
Deba for veggies - not a good match. Deba knives are thick, heavy single bevel knives used for processing fish.

Mark also sells an AEBL version of the Artifex SAB if you're interested in stainless steel.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:05 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
Posts: 313
I just picked up the 52100 sab artifex and am still amazed by the bang for buck factor, I can't personally speak for the other knives but you wont be unhappy with this choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:48 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
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I also own the Goko and find it performs very well: certainly very different than a Henckels. I don't rock much so I can't tell you how good it is to use that way repeatedly, but there is some belly and enough height on the tip to get over a medium-sized onion.

A good gyuto should be able to handle just about any task--it is a multipurpose knife. Just to note, a deba is a very specialized knife for breaking down fish. A western deba is a heavy duty knife for hard tasks, but probably not something you need if you already have a Henckles to perform such tasks.

The Sab does sound like a good idea for you, though it isn't a knife that I've used. It is taller than the GT240, so perhaps less good for slicing, but the height might be good for doing lots of prep.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2957
Location: CT
Kohetsu 210mm Blue #2 gyuto is $99 for stainless clad, carbon core western handle knife. Outstanding blade performance! A true "laser" class knife, blade is thin and cuts very well.

Goko Damascus performs well, takes and holds a decent edge. Probably the thinnest of your choices behind the edge.

The M390's I have seen were in 210mm and Mark wasn't sure if he was going to continue them or not. The page shows an ETA of Jan, 2014?

Sab 52100 is a beast of a knife, big and solid feeling. A little fat behind the edge, but it gives a more durable edge for line work than the thinner Japanese knives.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:48 am 
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I wouldn't disregard the Henckel, it'll come in handy at some point.

I'll throw in the Yamashin...cause it's Shirogami #1, KS and tall enough (for my personal liking).

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh1gy24.html



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:44 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:56 pm
Posts: 330
I've handled all the knives you're asking about but the M390. The Goko is a laser through and through. The 52100 SAB is my favorite right now. Love the thin tip and the way it cuts through everything. It isn't the lightest but it definitely isn't too heavy. Love lots about this knife... Probably enough to spend more on it and get a nicer handle and make a leather sheath for it.

The regular Artifex I didn't try until after I had a Richmond Laser in AEB-L so it was doomed in my opinion before I tried it. I have bought a couple for co-workers who love them.

Your Henckels still has potential. The biggest thing with that is the size but an 8 can still do a lot. It will take a good edge and hold it for a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:16 pm
Posts: 4
I apolgize if for posting this before searching other threads. Wow, though! Thanks to all you knife lovers for the great and prompt advice. I will look at all the knives you recommended. I am looking at perhaps for the three perfect knives every kitchen should have. A blogger on one site said a 12" chef knife will do it all but I have a hard time believing that. No one seem to mention Tojiro. The Japanese knife sharpener I took lessons from put his 240mm Tojiro DP at the top of his knives. Of course, he reprofiled the entire kniofe from spine to edge. It was thee sharpest knife I have ever tried.
I want a 52100 knife and as stated earlier. I am fine with the upkeep of the steel, as long as I keep it away from my wife. I was awed at the cutting of the Kramer compared with Shun, Global, Henkels Japanese profile. Why would that be? I am wondering if the Richmond will yield similar results.I did find the Kramer tall at the heel, if I am saying that right. I guess with a tall knife you chop and dice from the tip. I can't say I have a rocker style. I'm not sure what style I have.
I also think the sale on the $119 Damascus is good if you think it is better than a Shun. I am also intrigued by M390 steel.
I am looking at three or so knives to take care of 99% of our cooking. We do not eat meat or poultry. Fish, yes. We do lots of chopping all types/sizes of roots and vegetables, from beets to tomato. So, I am thinking a 210mm-250mm Gyuto (maybe two sizes?), paring knife, 6-7" utility/fillet knife (?), chef's knife (210-250). I tend to be over-anylytical on things like this, sort of like a writer getting writers block. Some free therapy would be helpful. So, you knife afficonados, let me hear you. Feel free to be opinionated.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto 70-100
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:18 pm 
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Posts: 690
If you guys are doing a lot of vegetables, you might want to throw a Nakiri (or CCK cleaver) into the mix. They're very ergonomic to use and are designed as a vegetable knife.



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