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 Post subject: Going all in...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7661
Location: Madison Wisconsin
HI Mark -

Looking at finally going all in - in a modest sort of way - with

Tojiro Shirogami ITK 150mm Petty - I want to try this, right now all I have that’s small is a Tojiro Zen 3.5-in. Paring Knife

Tojiro DP Honesuki Boning Knife 150mm - do some chicken once in a while

Goko Gyuto 240mm Damascus

A few questions:

Do you think that the Petty and the Honesuki are redundant?

Was also looking at the Shun Classic Gokujo Boning Knife 6” - would that be a better complement to the Petty?

I am a home chef/cook. Big hands

Also wondering what you recommend for the OOTB blades on these. Do I need stones or could I just go with a strop or the strop kit?

Or would I need something like the Green Brick as well?

Thnx

best,
ck



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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
I should show you some orders where customers go all in. hahahahh



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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:34 pm
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I do not think your choices are contradictory in any way.
A petty and a Honesuki are not redundant. The Japanese way is to have a blade for each task.
Shun makes good knives, but IMHO they are overpriced for what you get.
The Goko Damascus Gyuto is all the rage on the site right now. Laser thin, and highly regarded.
I have to keep biting my tongue not to buy one. I already own Mark's Richmond Laser in AEB-L steel
so a thin Goko does not add any value for me personally.
I have the white steel Goko, which is a heavier blade. OOTB the edge was good, but not great.
15 minutes on my stones, it's so sharp now my wife is scared to use it! :shock: :shock:

Do you have a bread knife? There are several great choices on the site.
Buy this one, you will not regret it.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkbrkn.html

This one is out of stock right now, but a great choice if you can wait
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riarbrkn27.html

Welcome to CKTG, Mark and Susan are excellent merchants, and bend over backwards to help you.


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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2850
Location: CT
Goko 240mm Damascus, great choice, handle is a little bigger for bigger hands!

Tojiro ITK petty, it's going to be pretty reactive, but it's a nice little petty to play with. Will take a wicked edge, too!

Honesuki, I had the Tojiro DP, not a bad knife, handle is a bit bigger than the Artifex Honesuki from what I remember. Some people bone out chickens with a petty, others like the Gokujo, others use the Hankotsu or Honesuki. They all work, just based on your preference.

Sharpening, Bester 1200, Rika 5K and a leather strop is a great kit for these knives. They will all take a very nice edge using those 2 stones and the leather strop bare after the Rika 5K to remove the burr and refine the edge a touch. It will leave you with a nice, aggressively toothy edge that will cut cleanly and easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:11 pm
Posts: 220
Location: San Diego
So, my $0.02. Many folks on here with more blades and more experience with them than me, but I tend to research the crud out of everything and have been around the block a bit, so maybe I can point you here or there.

Um, don't mean to speak ill of the ITK, but they are kind of project knives. fit and finish is sloppy, and handles are low on the scale of awesomeness. but they are an economy product, so can't really complaint too much for the price point. The good news is they do sharpen up nicely and are quite functional. If you are willing to spend a little time, maybe upgrading the fit and finish, they can be a great knife to have in the kitchen. If you are looking for a lower cost wa handle petty in carbon blade (what I'd categorize the ITK as), I'd look at the Zakuri. If you want to jump down to a 120mm, still carbon and wa, there is a murata buho that I have heard good things about. Or a bit larger, there is a yashamin ko yanagi that is 165mm, that looks like a great longish petty (and unlike most yanagi blades, it is a double bevel edge). If you are willing to look at western (yo) handles, then there are a ton of options, including nice AEB-L stainless in a richmond, stainless or carbon on a fujiwara, great fit and finish and good VG stainless in a masamoto, nice carbon and f&f in hirimoto, and heard great things about the suisin inox (probably pretty similar to the masamoto), all for under a hundred. If you are willing to spend a bit more, there is a lot of very positive chatter about the takamura R-2 line, and they make a 150mm petty.

Big hands? Me too. If you don't use a pinch grip, I'd learn it. It makes the handle type/fit much less relevant for most.

Goko is a great blade for the price. Some complain about the handle. ^^^^see sentence immediately above. if it really bothers you, there are a number of folks on here who make beautiful handles who can install them for you at a fair price.

Stones - I'd say get a 1,000 and something around 4-5,000. You can use a lot of stuff at home for strops, so you can hold off on stropping stuff if you'd prefer to wait. The 1,000/4-5,000 combo will work for quite awhile. You can touch up akin to stropping on the 5,000. Personally, I really like a ceramic hone (the Idahone they sell at CKTG is a good deal and quality stuff) and find that it really adds a quick edge to my knives, particularly stainless edges. If you get some knicks or blunted tips, then you will need to add something with a coarser grit. There is a good deal on the website for a stone holder and 120 diamond flat plate. The flat plate works well for major flaws and flattening your other stones when they get concave. Just some ideas here...

Shun - just not a fan of their profiles, although their f&f is pretty darn good. So I will keep quiet.



Honesuki vs petty...keep in mind that most honesuki blades are single bevel. Not good or bad, just different. And sharpening is different. So you gotta be up for that. What are planning on using it for? "Do some chicken once in a while." Can't answer if it is worth the investment...but keep reading. You almost might want to consider a honkotsu, which is another type of boning knife. There was a thread a bit back, maybe page 2, where someone was asking if it was okay to use a petty for boning birds. I personally do, and a few others who responded commented that they do to. Like any knife (even a honesuki), you just got to be careful around bones and joints. Personally, I think honesuki/honkotsu are a fairly single purpose blade (like, say a yanagi with fish slicing) while a petty, with it's profile and double bevel edge, is more versatile. I thought about the petty vs. honesuki for some time, but I am left handed, so it became a non-option. I then thought about a honkotsu, but just repurposed an old global 7" filet knife to do the same thing. Now, I just use my petty since it gets (and stays) a fair amount sharper than the global.


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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:31 am 
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Another $0.02......

For me, I would ditch the Honesuki for now, and add a bread knife. Honesuki knives are single bevel, generally specialized knives.
I personally do use my petty to separate chickens, it works just fine.

As for the Goko, the handle is larger than most wa handles, personally, I like it. The ferrule is garbage, aesthetically. I find the knife too thin to be a universal worker, though if you were very careful, it could be possible. This knife is a great bargain right now. OOTB, not amazing; lack of great edge is not an unusual thing for Japanese knives.

Stones before strops generally, you need a good edge to begin with before you start trying to refine it. Start with a 1k, move on from there.



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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:10 pm
Posts: 181
phillysco wrote:Do you have a bread knife? There are several great choices on the site.
Buy this one, you will not regret it.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkbrkn.html

This one is out of stock right now, but a great choice if you can wait
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riarbrkn27.html



The Tojiro ITK Bread knife does not do a good job on hard crusty bread. So bad I bought a Richmond Artifex Bread Knife.

With the Artifex, a light sawing cut with the Artifex's serrated edge easily and smoothly cuts the hardest of crusty breads.

Wait for the Artifex.


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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:11 pm 
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phillysco wrote:

The Tojiro ITK Bread knife does not do a good job on hard crusty bread. So bad I bought a Richmond Artifex Bread Knife.



I use my tojiro ITK to cut hard, stale bread for croutons weekly, it has never balked at it; actually I thought it rather excelled.

Is the richmond really that much better??



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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:10 pm
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Dan,

I've never cut a consistently hard through out, stale bread with either knife.

At least in my hands, the Tojiro when cutting a hard, inconsistently brittle - some lightly attached, very hard areas surround by medium areas - crust, over a fairly soft center, couldn't cut reasonable thin slices. The slices would also flake a lot of crust.

The wavy serrations of the Tojiro can handle most crusty breads. But when you move up to the really tough ones, the pointy tip serrations of the Artifex do a much better job.

I love crusty bread, the crustier the better. And I want the crust intact. For me, $55 for an Artifex (thanks Mark for the sale) was money well spent.


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 Post subject: Re: Going all in...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:35 pm 
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I see your point.



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