It is currently Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:07 am

All times are UTC



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:12 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
Hi,

After a lot of reading and research (Chad Ward's "An Edge in the Kitchen", several dozens of forum topics on ChefTalk.com and here, many a YouTube video), I have almost decided on the "Edge Pro Essential" set.

I am going to be sharpening some Wusthof Classic Ikon knives (that I have yet to buy, too :) ), as well as, I suppose, a fair number of cheap old knives that have been used by my family, my parents, and some of my best friends' families. :) I mean, obviously the Wusthofs are the main focus here, but I'm just saying that with a device like this in my possession it would be almost criminal not to use it for its intended purpose; also, since I don't suppose the Wusthofs will need sharpening more frequently than once or twice a year, I would otherwise not be getting any "mileage" out of the device, nor would I be getting sufficient practice. So the goals will be (a) maintaining a nice edge on the rather hard (58 hardness) Wusthof Classic Ikons, (b) reprofiling many cheap and soft, but hopelessly abused, knives.

I am planning to purchase the following kit:
- "Edge Pro Essential" set;
- a 20x loupe;
- a deburring hard felt cube;
- a DMT 2" x 6" plate: (a) for flattening the Shapton stones, (b) for reprofiling cheap old knives;
- also an Idahone 12" fine rod + a Super Eraser for the rod.

The questions I have are as follows:

1) Am I right in thinking that I can use the DMT plate for both purposes? Will it flatten the Shaptons well? Will it reprofile the knives well? The reason I want it to serve a double purpose is that my understanding is that I would need something coarser than the Shaptons that come with the Edge Pro set to efficiently reprofile many knives and to not spoil the Shaptons - and it would be sort of too much for me financially to buy both a flattening stone and a coarse Shapton stone.

2) Do I need another Shapton stone, in addition to the DMT plate and the 3 Shapton stones in the set? I am not looking to win any knife sharpening contests, just to make my knives $300-worth-sharp. :) I mean, I don't think I will be getting into stropping or boron carbides or stuff like that. But would I truly benefit from, say, a 8K Shapton stone? And by "truly benefit" I mean "will my wife notice our chef's knife has become sharper" in a blind test of "before and after". :)

3) Any other comments or advice on my kit? Anything that I don't really need? Anything missing?

4) Oh, and has anyone used two magnets instead of one? Will two really hold a knife in its place? (It seems in the video that one magnet doesn't quite do that.)

Thanks to anybody and everybody for help and comments!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:43 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2424
Spartanus - one magnet will actually hold most knives surprisingly well. They're strong magnets. Put blue painters tape on both sides of the blade. The magnet makes it easy to scratch the face of the knife, since it's sucked down to the blade table. I usually go about 2/3 of the way from spine to the edge w/the tape.

I like the DMT plate for flattening, but I found it hard to use on the EP stone holder clamps. It doesn't have the angle cut on each end to fit into the holder clamps and it's quite heavy and tended to fall out of the clamps.

If you're sharpening dull knives, do yourself a favor and get the Atoma 140 EP plate. It's not cheap, but it removes metal like nothing else and it lasts a long time. From there you can use the 500 Shapton to remove the scratch pattern. It might take a while - the Atoma 140, like many diamond plates, leaves pretty deep scratches on the bevel. If you want to save some wear and tear on your 500, consider adding the 220 or 320 Shapton glass stone to remove the Atoma scratch pattern before moving on to higher grit stones.

If you want to skip the Atoma, get the Shapton Glass 220 EP stone and start there with really dull knives, then on to the 500, 1K. Some of the cheap stainless in a lot of cheap knives can be somewhat wear resistant and you'll need a good coarse stone or diamond plate to grind a new bevel quickly. The 500 can be a PITA to cut a bevel on really dull blades - and most of them will be REALLY dull.

The great thing about the EP is that you can cut a really nice, uniform edge bevel quickly if you have the right starter stone, then refine that bevel to finer finishes using your stone progression.

So, most economical addition is the Shapton GS 220 for a 220, 500, 1K, 4K progression. You can use wine corks for deburring as well if you want to save a few $$ on the felt block.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
SteveG

Thank you for the detailed reply!

- Just one magnet. Got it!

- So a Shapton GS 4K is enough, right? I don't need anything finer? (Just double-checking - because from what I've read there is a lot of emphasis on very fine final sharpening / polishing of edges with a lot of folks and sharpening schools.)

- Yeah, you are right, getting a $75 stone (Atoma) for the sole purpose of being the first stage in sharpening second-rate knives is to much for me. I mean, that's the price of a decent chef's knife... I will consider a Shapton GS 220, thanks!

- How soon would I actually need to flatten the Shaptons? The second week? The second month? In a couple of years? It's my understanding a lot of people don't flatten their EP stones at all (just buy a kit and keep using it for sharpening) - or am I wrong? How quickly do these stones wear? Also, since they are so narrow and since the action is much more uniform compared to freehand sharpening (where one quickly forms a divot in the middle), do EP stones need as much and as frequent a flattening as comparable freehand stones?

Thanks again for your help!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
(What I mean by the last question is that perhaps I don't need to buy a flattening plate at all at first?..)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
Or, second options, if I do buy the Shapton GS 220 and don't buy the DMT flattening plate, could I just flatten the Shaptons on some sandpaper (thus saving some money)? Would it work on them alright?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:09 pm
Posts: 37
Hi:
Get this to flatten your Shaptons.http://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 734
I use 2 magnets and like the stability they provide.

The DMT is what to get for flattening. The item manges pointed to has had some growing pains. Flatten gently after every use and you're good. It does work as a course stone, but as SteveG mentioned isn't a perfect fit in the clamp. You will need to ditch the spring and use the screw on ball and be mindful of deforming the plastic.

OK I'll say it... What can we do to talk you out of the Wusthofs?

Cheers,

Rick


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:34 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
Ok, so two magnets and the DMT plate. Got it! :)

I'm 95% set on Wusthof Classic Ikons (not a large set or anything, just a 2-3 most essential knives at first). I know they aren't the most fashionable with the "knife crowd" nowadays. Insufficient hardness, steel not good enough, blade too thick, right? :) Angles are alright, though, being 14 degrees, yeah? People seem to mostly be fans of Japanese knives today... Well, ok, what would you recommend instead? :)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:16 pm 
Forum Moderator

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2424
As Rick mentioned, get the two sided smaller DMT plate for flattening, then lightly flatten after each use to keep the stones ready for the next session. You can help yourself by trying to use as much of the EP stones as possible, using long strokes, not just hitting the middle area. Lower grit stones will dish more quickly than higher grit stones.

I say if you really like the Ikons, go for it! They are the best Wusthof line to sharpen, since they have no heel bolster. The ceramic rod should work extremely well to keep them sharp in between sessions on the EP.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A few questions re the "Edge Pro Essential" set
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
SteveG

There were several reasons for choosing the Wusthof Classic Ikons:
- no heel bolster like you said, compared e.g. to the Wusthof Classics, so easier sharepening,
- harder steel (most other Wusthofs are 56 HRC, these are 58 HRC),
- smaller angle (14 degrees compared to the usual 20 or so),
- nice handles, again compared e.g. to the Wusthof Classics.

But so what happens to the people who don't flatten their EP stones (except burning in sharpeners' hell later on :) )? And how bad is the problem compared to freehand sharpening on larger stones?


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred