It is currently Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:45 pm



Welcome
Welcome to chefknivestogo

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 3 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 pm
Posts: 104
Hey. This is my first post, but I have been around a while. I am a home cook, and have purchased some knives from CKTG that I really enjoy. I am getting to a point that I am ready to sharpen at least one, but I am have lots of questions, even after reading plenty of threads/reviews/videos here.

My current go-to knives are an Artifex 210 Gyuto, CCK small cleaver, cheap kitchenaid paring knife, cheap kitchenaid nakiri, and the Goko Damascus 240 that is on sale right now is on the way. The last one is also the reason I am interested in looking for a new sharpening method. I also bought it because the 210 was starting to feel kinda small, and my GF and I usually fight over the Artifex. I also have a decent set of ceramic knives I barely use, but give to novices in my kitchen. I also have a ceramic idahone.

Now to the real questions. I have a set of DMT dia-folds(C,F,EF,EEF) that I have been using on my pocket knives for some time. They are quick, clean, and get a pretty good edge. I use the marker trick a lot to make sure I am doing what I should be. My like for them had me looking at their DuoSharp Plus series with the bench in XC,C,F,EF, (~$130) because the dia-folds are in no way big enough to handle a kitchen knife I don't think. The more I thought about it, the more it just didn't feel right to sharpen nice Japanese knives on a DMT stone. a little research said there were better methods. Some people still like the DMT stones for their kitchen knives though.

Are the DMT plates good enough to sharpen an array of kitchen knives? Could I do better with some stones? I have been looking at the 4pc(Arashiyama), 5pc, 8pc, Shapton glass, and B.B.C's suggestion from another thread ("If your looking at shaptons, I would gab the 320/1k/5k pro set and the strop set w/ holder and diamond plate.", waterstones-i-m-lost-t5329.html). Is it worth learning to sharpen on stones? I imagine this is something I will do for a long time since I have plenty of pocket and kitchen knives to keep sharp, but they are a little too expensive to be making the choice over and over and over... I have even considered using DMT for the lower grits and maybe finishing with some waterstones... I am just a lowly home cook haha.

I understand it is an investment, and I also want to protect and get the most out of my knife investments, which I don't see ending any time soon. Any advice is welcome. I will happily admit I need some direction. It pains me now to think about the knives and sharpening techniques my mom used while I was growing up.... Thanks in advance!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 148
If you are just starting to learn you can always get a combo stone like a King 1k/6k to get comfortable on or get a 1kish stone and a suehiro rika 5k


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:29 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1614
You just stated exactly the conundrum we are all in.


Are the DMT plates good enough to sharpen an array of kitchen knives?

Yes. They will work. I use a DMT for coarse work, so I do not have a lot of experience with the finer hones, but it is my understanding that you can get a perfectly usable edge with them.


Could I do better with some stones?

Maybe. Likely. Quality Japanese water stones basically exist for Japanese cutlery. It stands to reason they will excel at doing so. But there are questions of technique, steel, and which stones are we comparing to which stones.


I have been looking at the 4pc(Arashiyama), 5pc, 8pc, Shapton glass, and B.B.C's suggestion from another thread ("If your looking at shaptons, I would gab the 320/1k/5k pro set and the strop set w/ holder and diamond plate.", waterstones-i-m-lost-t5329.html). Is it worth learning to sharpen on stones?

I use Kings because I was uninformed when I bought them. Many would consider any of those an improvement over what I have...so your on the right track


I imagine this is something I will do for a long time since I have plenty of pocket and kitchen knives to keep sharp, but they are a little too expensive to be making the choice over and over and over... I have even considered using DMT for the lower grits and maybe finishing with some waterstones... I am just a lowly home cook haha.

Take the long view here. You will be amortizing the cost of sharpening equipment for many years all the while honing your technique (pun intended) and enjoying sharp cutlery. At the risk of going against the grain, if you are concerned about cost, consider buying a single stone to start with. A 1k or 2k stone will leave you with a serviceable, but not refined edge for kitchen use. But it will also allow you to try one product, learn what you love about it and what you would rather see improved about it, then make subsequent purchases based on your own experience. It will also allow you to spread the cost over time and lessen the hurt in the short term.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 pm
Posts: 104
Thanks for the suggestions so far.

To be clear, price doesn't really matter. I was just about ready to throw down ~$130 for 2 double sided DMT 8" plates, but wanted to see if the difference between DMT and whetstones is worth it. I could get a decent set of whetstones for that same amount. I could get a lot more options for $100 more too. Just trying to figure out what other people think. The norm is obviously Japanese whetstones. Just trying to justify it to myself, and possibly get some help with what I actually need.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 148
The DMT's will work but are usually reserved for the harder work or resetting the bevel on the knife or tip repair or chip repair etc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:55 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3932
I would get a DMT 140 to flatten stones and do repair work. As far as stones go skip the cheap shit(combo stones or kings) and save the money and get some good stones. You can learn just as easy if not easier on good stones and your going to have them for a long time. That Shapton Pro set is a great place to start. I would add a 2k stone to it later to finish softer stainless if you own any. You can add an 8-10k later if you decide you want more polish to your knives but a 5k edge is very functional.
There are several very good sets other than the Pros too. I started with the Arashiyamas and added the 2k Pro for my soft stuff and a 320 Pro for a low grit to set bevels. Still love those stones. Pick a set that sounds good to you and go for it, it's hard to go wrong. Get a low grit 220-500, a medium grit 1-2k and a high grit 4-6k and you'll be good to go. Don't forget a 140 DMT, personally I would get the Atoma 140 but they are expensive.



_________________
Those who say it can't be done are always passed by those doing it.
Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:45 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 258
+1 to jeffs coments. the shapton pros are great stones cut quick dish slow and are good for beginers to learn on. not to soft either so will have a "similar" feel to the dmts your used to.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:29 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 586
My experience agrees with everything that has been said. Get a DMT for flattening your stones and doing major steel removal. I think you might have a more pleasant experience using stones for other work, rather than finer grit diamond plates, and Jeff's grit advice is solid. The Shaptons and Arashiyamas have good reputations, and I can back up Charcuterie on the suggestion of the Rika 5k.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:43 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:45 am
Posts: 1395
I may be underrating your sharpening experience, but I like cedarhouse's approach of getting one stone and seeing how you like it. I suspect you will take to stone sharpening after using diamond plates pretty quickly.

You have a range of grits already from coarse to ~ 1200 grit (excluding the XXF, which IMO is not an exceptional product giving finishes considerably rougher than it's 8k stated finish)

I also like the approach of getting good at using a 1k stone before advancing to finer grits right away. If you like harder stones, consider the Shaptons. Softer - go superstones and Choceras. If you want something to most closely match your tastes, the Nubatamas give you the broadest range of options. King stones are, well King stones :)

It is worthwhile to observe how a 1k stone 'converts' the diamond scratch pattern from the various diamond grits.

---
Ken



_________________
My Facebook Page
Ken'sCorner
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beginner looking for sharpening suggestions
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:11 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 297
Hi OP, I'm kinda in a similar situation on this. I considered getting stones and the DMT plates and decided to go with the DMT duosharp and got as a starter the fine/extra fine with the base. My knives are already pretty sharp and I'm very careful to not cut anything that would require chip repair so my use is primarily to touch up the knives. I also got the balsa and horse butt strops with magnetic base which sticks nicely to the plates. I use the Tormek honing compound which according to their spec is a 3 micron compound.

Picked up this set about a month ago and have been practicing on cheap knives and a tojiro dp gyuto everyday. The finished edge I'm getting now with this setup is really nice. Very good working edge that seems to last longer than the factory edge. I suspect the Tojiro DP shipped with an edge that was less than 30 deg inclusive and seemed to get chipped and bent quite easily. OOTB it seemed to stick into the board a lot till I started to develop more of a pull and draw cut. I have a hammered Goko damascus on its way to me as well.

I start out with the fine 600 mesh side on the DMT, would that be 600 grit? and move to the 1200 mesh after, this leaves the knife with a pretty decent edge that cuts paper just fine. I cork in between stages. After that taking it to a 3 micron on balsa strop takes the edge up what seems like several orders of sharp. 3 micron from the grit chart is about 8000 grit. Figure this is similar to someone going from a 1K to 6K stone. I go from a 1200 to a 8K strop which I hope can replace the 8K stone. At this stage the edge is polished yet toothy and quite usable, if i want it a little more polished I put it to the horse butt leather with no compound. It does seem to polish it up a little more.

I can push cut paper all along the edge, do the paper thin slice tomato thingy with no hands on the tomato and chop a tomato like in the artifex demo. The knife slices through veg effortlessly with very little resistance. I'm not a purist looking to get a super polished edge. My objective is to just get a good working edge that slices tomato effortlessly. That has been the one thing that used to frustrate me before and finally have it licked. Cutting paper is no big deal, a half decent edge will cut paper but not necessarily do a tomato.

I'm not sure if what I'm doing is right or if there are additional levels of "sharp" I'm missing out on, can someone tell me if I can improve it further? I'm using the diamond cos I don't want to deal with having to level stones and deal with their maintenance and care. Richard Blaine starts out with diamond but goes up to a shapton stone before stropping. That's a workable hybrid strategy I suppose.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 3 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred