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 Post subject: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:10 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:06 pm
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I am looking for an all rounder knife that will hold a good edge in a commercial kitchen. I am a rocking-cutter, and I do not want a reactive blade as we tend to work on the go and have to prep thing during service.
Ideally I want a gyuto, but I love how kiritsukes look. Budget should be around 250, but I would want to spend less of course. 210mm is an ideal size, but I wouldn't mind something bigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:25 am 
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So do you want bigger or not. What type handle?

One to consider, Kikuichi Performance TKC: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ictkcgy21.html
Semi stainless that acts more like a stainless.



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:32 am 
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Nice knife: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohhstki24.html

Swedish stainless ~ low maintenance and good edge retention.

However, Kiritsuke's tend to have a flatter belly so they're not really associated with rock chopping.

But hey, I'm sure you could get used to it!



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:51 am 
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+1 TKC

Great knife, awesome sharpness, great F+F, durable edge, can rock chop, and available in 210mm.

Both the 210 and 240 are in your budget though.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kiswwadagy21.html

Another consideration from the same maker as TKC.... Thin and light, japanese handle. Perhaps less of a prepper, but still good, hard steel.



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:43 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:06 pm
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I am not that fussy about it being a kiritsuke

Handle wise, I have both western handled knives, and wa handled ones so I do not mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:34 pm 
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Location: NE
TKC is an excellent option! 240mm for sure in a commercial kitchen. IME 210 is too dainty for workhorse.
Kiritsuke would not be recommended in a hectic environment. No coming back from a dropped kiritsuke.

The Haruyuki may suit you.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hasrgy24.html

I would recommend looking at the Tanaka Ginsan.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tanakaginsan.html


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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:14 pm 
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Jeff B wrote:So do you want bigger or not. What type handle?

One to consider, Kikuichi Performance TKC: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ictkcgy21.html
Semi stainless that acts more like a stainless.


Although I don't fully consider the TKC a workhorse, this is a really great knife and should fit what you're looking for very well.

IMHO, the TKC is just slightly thinner than what I consider a workhorse.



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:57 pm 
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TOUFAS <> I'm glad you can admit your only interest in the Kiritsuke is its appearance. It's functionally moot in 90% of Western kitchens, and it's best forgotten in this conversation.

JEFF, asked you an unanswered question: 210 or 240? This makes a difference, and space should be the predicate. He was blunt in his format because your indifference gets us nowhere... fast. CKTG carries 210s & 240s... which would you like? In a commercial environment, if its only used for service I can see the 210. If its only used for prep, I can see a 240/270. If you can only have one service/prep knife, a 210 usually wins out, but if you can swing the 240 in service... do it. This can also be confused by some 240's coming in from 230-250 & 210's coming in @205-215.

On to my suggestions. You want a "workhorse." Ah, how I love semantics. There have been so many damn threads over the years about "lasers" & "reprofiling" & "workhorses" it gets to a point where a man just wants to Image , but then I gather myself & presume you want a knife that you can sharpen to a respectable angle, beat the snot out of all day long, and need not do anything to but strop after your shift/before your next. You have already specified you want SS. I own a myriad of knives, I've used even more, but I'm going to extend some suggestions I own & some that I do not as I look for different attributes in a knife than you do.

First, allow me to say I am a huge proponent for the TKC. If you have engaged even a modicum of due diligence in researching a knife for yourself, I'm sure you have seen how highly the item is regarded - particularly by one of our resident knife makers, ADAM MARR. I have personally lauded the knife, as well; I love her dearly. Exceptionally versatile profile, weighted enough to instill integrity yet light enough to prep all day long, steel that is fun on the stones / takes a great edge / has impressive retention, great F&F, etc. It seems like just yesterday, albeit a handful of months, we were just telling DANCRUBENEW, these very same things as he was deliberating if he should or should not get a second JK. As you can see, he has been extremely happy with the TKC. That said, I won't suggest against her, but I think you might consider something a bit more durable. I am not implying in anyway that the TKC is not a tough knife - it is undeniably tough - a "workhorse" FOR ME - IN MY HANDS, but we're dancing in the abyss of relativity which is nothing more than absolute ambiguity. ;) What you think is tough & what I think is tough can be disparate concepts.

Image

The knife I want to suggest, is out-of-stock, AND if my intuition serves me correct - as it typically does, when it comes back into stock it will have a modified grind on it that will be a world apart from where the knife I grew accustom to resides. The knife I type of is the SHIRO KAMO, <--link. A beast of a knife. Has some very distinct attributes that you can love or hate, but it has been well received, and could be worth the wait... especially if a new grind comes back with narrower shoulders. Knife is notably stiff with what I find to be limited feedback, but this is countered by sheer & awesome cutting power. They work a PM steel into an absurdly tough & durable knife. Any time I think of the Kamo, I think of a BEAST. It's so tough, I feel it's a prime candidate as a restaurant house-knife, but that's neither here nor there.

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There are two knives that I think should rate extremely high in your consideration as they share PM steels, like the Kamo. Steel alone should never really be a deciding factor, but in this case, said steel is lauded for its durability & edge retention... both attributes you are seemingly focused on. Niether is ground as robustly as the Kamo, but that can be & most likely is beneficial for you as the Kamo might be a bit too "beastly". A thinner grind will afford you a more precise knife with improved feedback.

#1: The HARUYUKI.<--link This knife's SRS-15 core steel @Hrc63 will offer you impressive edge potential with extended edge retention. I really like the profile, but if you choose the 210 in this model be aware it is on the shorter side at around 44mm tall; the 240 is much more appropriate IMO @48mm. Pay attention to the tapered design in the Yo-handle as it slims out unlike a typical Western.

#2: The TAKAMURA. <--link This knife I only see around the web in a 210. It is about 15% lighter than the Haruyuki with a more delicate grind, but again, having a high-hardness PM steel - in this case Takefu's SG-2 @Hrc62/63, you should still enjoy very respectable edge potential & retention. Of note, its 210 has a bit more height coming in a millimeter taller... yes, a mm makes a difference.

I will add in one more suggestion, of which is at the high-end of your budget. The Kanehiro G3 line<--link is a fully stainless Wa-gyuto that I have a lot of experience with, and recommend highly. The Ginsan steel is not a Powder Metallurgy High Speed Tool Steel, but it is still an impressive alloy of which is widely known to take a uniquely aggressive edge while still extending impressive edge retention when employed with appropriate final bevel angles. It is not so unique in it's design, but it has a large primary bevel which employs a noticeable convexity at the shinogi. I find this to instill an integrity of strength and durability with its full body, yet still exhibiting functional cutting prowess as a convex transitions into the thinned primary bevel.

Image

I sincerely enjoy my connection with Kanehiro's knives, and this Hrc62 G3 line is no exception. Furthermore, I personally prefer this knife over the last two due to statistical dimensions. I prefer their heights much more, and they employ a slightly tighter radius in their belly which will lift your heel slightly higher in your rocking style.

Know this... anything you buy from CKTG is a winner.. we're just trying to dial you in with the limited information we have about you.

edit:
I had started this post last night & broke right into the draft this morning w/o seeing ATANG's & ADAM's additions. Interestingly enough, yet not surprisingly there is overlap, and I hope you find it prudent to recognize them in this swath of opinions.



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:01 pm 
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That Shiro is a piece of art Mel. I may sign up for the wait list after that post.



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 Post subject: Re: Workhorse that will hold the edge?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:09 pm 
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DAN <> I've wrote about it many times. I spend so much damn time posting trying to help out as much as any post actually can that I have not done what I need to which is write dedicated reviews so I can just link to it [my opinion]. It's an interesting knife for sure. Not delicate enough for my taste, but it compensates bi-fold on the other end of the spectrum. CKTG & I have spoken about it, and they agree with a lot of my observations. A constructive criticism might be extended to Japan, and you might see a new & improved version upon restock. We'll see, but either way the knife has it's place...



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