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 Post subject: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:07 pm
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I'm looking to add a new 210mm gyutoh to my collection of western knives. I've heard good things about the masakage but nothing about the sukinare, so I figured i'd ask here. Also, do you think using a 5k then an 8k shapton pro followed by a 12k ceramic rod is a good enough sharpening routine if done regularly? Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:38 pm 
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Larry - I love Masakage knives (I have a Yuki), but the ZDP189 steel in the Sukenari will blow the VG10 in the Kumo knives out of the water. It's an expensive, powdered metallurgy super steel with superb wear resistance and it's heat treated to 66-67 HRC - very hard. Check out the product page on the 210 Sukenari for a video I just finished on this knife. This will give you a good look at it. That Sukenari is a superb knife, worthy of the high price tag. Whether you decide the investment in a ZDP189 Gyuto is worth the expense to you is another story entirely.

I'm confused on the ceramic rod. What rod to you have? I don't know of a 12000 (12K) grit honing rod. Did you mean 1200 grit (1.2K)? That's the approximate rating of the Idahone Fine Ceramic rod.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:07 pm
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Thanks for the reply, and I missed the decimal!


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Like Steve said, ZDP is a well respected powder steel. I've owned several knives with it and I like it well enough.

I've never been a huge fan of powdered steels though.

Depending on the day, I actually would prefer a very well HT'd VG10.....as in the Hattori Forum knives. :)



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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:15 pm 
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OK Adam, just when I think I'm beginning to get a handle of some of the different steels... Can you expound on your reasons on PM versus really good VG10? Also, I don't know in actual fact, but I'd think Masakage would do a pretty good job with VG10, what do you think?

Back to Larry - If you're finishing on an 8K stone, then following up with a 1200 grit honing rod, that's going to bring the refined 8K bevel finish back down to around 1K or so. You'll be taking a big step backwards after all that work on the stones. I suppose if you stop on the 5K or 8K and use the knife until it needs a touch up, you could use the ceramic rod to bring the edge back a bit. You're still losing your nice high grit bevel finish, though. If you like the performance of the higher grit edge, you might try stropping on the 5K or 8K stone instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:22 pm 
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I'm going to take a quick stab at Adams reasons for not being a fan of powdered steel.

Harder to work with(e.g. grind) and harder to sharpen making them harder to maintain.

Expensive

Or I could just be a moron, which is highly likely according to my wife. :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Yeah, exactly what Jeff said. Some of them are very good and if you want a knife that holds an edge for a very long time, they're about your best bet. But they can be a royal PITA to remove burrs on, can form crazy wire edges, and can be chippy since they're so damn hard often times.

I'd think Masakage would HT VG10 well, but having never seen it....well, you know. :) The Hattori Forum knives are the only VG10 I would ever praise that I've used.



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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:07 pm
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Thanks everyone for the information. I'm leaning towards the zdp189 because of the edge retention, but I think I'll check out some carbon damascus knives too (suggestions please): I'm pretty easy on knives and I only work on a wooden board. I think I'll invest in a leather strop and some diapaste to finish the polish after the 8k shapton.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Larry - if you want an awesome, dramatic looking stainless steel Damascus 210 Gyuto, check out the Richmond Damascus 210: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rida21gyma.html.

If you want to check out the 240 version for some videos that describe the knife better: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rida24gy.html.

These things come razor sharp OOTB. Get the Maple handled model if you want a killer looking handle. Check out this video for a good look at the Maple handle: cktg-custom-tiger-maple-handles-t5072.html


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage kumo vs sukinare damascus zdp189
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:10 pm 
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Carbon damascus screams Tanaka:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tanakagyuto1.html



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