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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3658
What knife are you sharpening? And it sounds like you really need to lighten up on the pressure and are grinding to long on the first side. You shouldn't have that bad of a burr starting on a 1k stone. Lighter pressure and more edge trailing strokes to finish with and you may notice a big difference very quickly.



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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:14 am
Posts: 559
Location: San Ramon Ca.
Ken makes a very good point which most miss. Unless your repairing / removing metal to create a new edge going for a burr can be counter productive. Meet in the middle and refine what you have. Nine times out of ten to much pressure is the cause of a sharpeners frustration.



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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
Posts: 427
I think I screwed up the edge pretty good using the cheapo combo bench stone...

I did have good luck with edge trailing strokes, it got it sharper, cut paper better but to be honest my edge really sucks. It works okay but it's nowhere near the factory edge. I'm a bit confused.

You say not to create a wire ege in the first place. But then you say "once you remove the burr or wire edge the two sides are not meeting anymore." But how the hell do you get the edges to meet without creating such an effect? Is this a process of perpetually removing the burr in the process of sharpening?

So basically the proper procedure if I'm following this correctly is to shape and profile one side, use trailing or edge leading strokes to remove burr, follow the same procedure on the other side and finish with some alternating edge leading or trailing strokes to negate any potential burr or wire?

I do use very light pressure...I've used such light pressure that I've had a few slips. The level of refinement I see with my eyes is very good on the Nubatama 5k...Nice mirror like finish. Closer inspection I see those damn little bits of metal protruding...


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:09 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 840
Your trying to over think it. Sharpen with your 1k stone until you form a edge and developed a burr. Make a few light passes to minimize the burr. Move on to 5k stone and repeat. Once the scratch pattern has been changed from 1k to 5k you will have a 5k burr which can be removed by using edge trailing strokes and light pressure. If you do not find this possible then practice is your only answer.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:42 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1478
I do not know what a lot of these guys know, but I think Jason has a point, you risk over thinking this. You raise a burr to confirm that you have two meeting planes, ie an edge. Then light trailing strokes to gently abrade the burr without raising a new one. Then move on.

I think what Ken is alluding to is with time and experience you can develop the touch and the instinct to stop before raising a burr and thereby not have to remove it.

The solution is to practice. I do not know how long you have been sharpening, but it took me a year to get the edge better than factory. I could get serviceable edges, but not impressive ones. At that point I thought I had it figured out. I recently purchased some new knives with new steels, grinds, profiles, hardnessess and I sometimes feel I am back to square one. When that happens I go back to fundamentals, raise a burr to confirm I have reached the edge, abrade it away, repeat on other side. It feels like the nuclear option, but it gets be back to cooking.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:11 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 840
Watch this video, I use the exact stones you are using and describe my technique. It might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgOXvtJ ... lpG8WVMZOA


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
Posts: 427
I guess I got it as good as it can be for now. The bevel I set is far from ideal. I have an edge that I'll test tonight. I am using very light pressure. I think I probably should not expect miracles from the thin Kohetsu blade. I'm guessing I need to have a bit more of a workhorse knife and less of a laser type.

Hopefully I can cut lots of things at work tonight. The 5k Nubatama seems to be toothy but polished enough. I think I just have to live with the crappy bevel I set until I get a coarser stone and fix it a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
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Don't get to discouraged! We've all been there. Keep practicing and you'll have that "ah ha" moment like us all. Start off working slowly and checking your work often and you'll find your way!
Jason's video helped me a lot when I was first getting started.



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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:38 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:01 pm
Posts: 203
Another method endorsed by master smith Wayne Goddard is to bring the angle up to about 35 degrees on the finish stone and with the lightest touch, perhaps even less than the weight of the blade itself, complete a couple edge leading strokes on each side. I've heard others describe this as "pinching" the burr off. I've been employing this technique with great effectiveness, but it can't be over emphasized the need for light pressure. I also use some light edge trailing strokes before and after. It's great fun to add new tricks. -Josh


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 Post subject: Re: How do I remove the wire?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:28 am 
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So the idea is to not create burr. When you are about to create a burr you will experience a sudden and dramatic increase in sharpness. This takes practice to recognize - and patience, checking EACH stroke at first. Being human you will create SOME burr. It should be abraded off not broken off by gently abrasion. Again if you don't create burr, advance to the next finest grit and creat burr then. Repeatedly creating a burr and breaking it off at each grit is a waste of time and counterproductive. On a good day, I might create my first burr at 16k. On a bad day at 2k or 4k. You can FORCE a burr with a microbevel, but just a couple of degrees less acute. 35 degree microbevels will achieve this easily but this is too obtuse of an angle for a good kitchen knife. Under a scope you would be AMAZED at how little pressure even at a fine grit - including strops - it takes to put a microbevel on an edge.

Pete, you are correct. This concept of almost generating a burr is one of the hardest to teach. Practice and patience.

---
Ken



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